141 thoughts on “Wolves Within the Gate”

1. Tim,
   ( Ha! I beat Kevin to be the 1st to comment ).
   You know, I am thinking of getting one of those Divine Mercy pictures for over my mantle. I have to have an image of the Sacred Heart displayed when I have the priest come over to consecrate my house. My wife wants to invite friends and neighbors and have party.
   You know, on my trip to Poland, I went to that convent. Poland is so cool. Such a holy country.
   Thanks for helping spread the devotion. Neat photo of the wolves too.

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   1. Thanks, Jim. I hope your wife is traveling safely in the US this week.

      Tim

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      1. Thanks Tim. I wish she could have been carrying a rosary for your mom. Maybe in August you will feel differently. We will go again then.

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2. Tim, I pray that you continue to make these distinctions. We are to call out false teaching and the evangelical embracing of Rome. Rick Warren and in many ways Billy Graham later in life cozied up to Rome. Many evangelicals including Reformed are more enamored still and affected by the pageantry of Rome. You have done a good job of pointing out all the errors of Rome. I hope you go after Romans 4 at some point. But I know you will make that decision when its right. What you are doing effectively is undercutting the hermeneutic and exegesis of Rome. And you have effectively shown the appearance of the false Christ in Rome. Thx

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   1. Thanks, Kevin,

      There is, and has been for a long time, a tendency to miss the obvious: that Rome is the Antichrist that was prophesied. Just like the skeptics in Peter’s day, who said, “Where is the promise of his coming?” (2 Peter 3:4), since the light of the reformation has faded into a distant memory, men who are ostensibly the guardians of the legacy now wonder if the Reformers were perhaps too hasty in their condemnation of Romanism so quickly. As I mentioned in What the Fathers Feared Most, the Fathers were afraid that Antichrist would come and no one would notice—so clever and convincing did they believe his disguise would be.

      So today, men who claim to affirm the Westminster Confession of Faith, which rejects Roman Catholicism as a Christian denomination (WCF, 24.3)—men who go out of their way to claim their allegiance to the confession—then in the same breath lament that Christ’s church is not unified, and instruct us that Rome’s popes, saints and priests ought to be counted within the visible church. There is a seemingly endless list of men—prominent ministers and seminary presidents, no less!—who nonetheless will populate the pulpits of the PCA and instruct the sheep from the “wisdom” of Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence, Mother Teresa, John Paul II, Ignatius of Loyola, Francois Fenelon, Ronald Rolheiser—mystics, all. I challenged one seminary president on his use of Mother Teresa after a sermon at a church I was attending, and offered that perhaps he was not aware of her many teachings? No, he said. He was quite aware of her teachings and very familiar with them.

      A remarkable and growing abdication of the faith once delivered.

      Tim

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      1. Tim, I re read this today. and Im glad I did. Do you think the level of ignorance in the church, even at the highest level ( Warren, Keller) is due to a lack of scriptural teaching? Why have these Christian Pastors, who should be shrewd to see error, are just embracing Roman Catholicism? I have a theory. Many of these men who come out of seminary and start a ministry are trying to expand their personal scope. In the case of Warren, Purpose driven life, which didnt even contain the gospel. In their attempt to expand their ministries and be inclusive, they are just embracing Roman Catholicism and its mystycism. Couple that with the importance put on visible, carnal, and material things, the spiritual appeal of ritual to people who value these things in society. Its one thing to fight Roman error, but to have to also battle the evangelical embracing of Rome is sad. Rome hasnt changed, it cant. It is antichrist. We must get these pastors to understand that scripture teaches us to hold ourselves back from false teaching. Im not sure people know the difference between a denomination and a religion. K

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         1. Kevin,

            I think a lot of it can be traced to the failure to harmonize Daniel 2 and 7. When they are harmonized, it is clear that there is no earthly dominion for the Church immediately following the incarnation. The misreading of Daniel 2 has people assuming that the impact of the Stone during the Feet of the statue must refer to Christ setting up His church to rule the earth at his incarnation, and so even the most ardent historicist ends up assuming that the late 4th century, early 5th century Church was Roman, for the Church took over the empire. Even Elliott does that in Horæ Apocalypticæ. Read Speaking the Love in Love, and you find Steve Brown doing the same thing in his famous lecture, Church ‘R Us. Read Peddling Fénelon and you find Peter Leithart doing the same thing in his article, “The End of Protestantism.”

            All these men fall into very diverse categories within the “Evangelical” or “Protestant” camp, but they all share a common assumption: the late 4th, early 5th century Church was Roman, and we are all instructed by them to get used to that fact. So no matter their position, they are lobbing softballs across the plate to Roman Catholic apologists who agree with them that the early Church was essentially Roman, and they swing for the fences. As I wrote in the Fifth Empire, that position is caused by the almost universal historical tendency to collapse the two judicial movements of Daniel 2:34-35 into a single swift act of judgment. When that is done, it sure looks like it is a prophecy of the rise of the civil power of the Church, and even Elliott takes it that way. Thus, even our beloved Reformers traced their roots through Rome. On that path we cannot follow. Separate the judicial movements and we find that it is Antichrist, not the Church, that takes civil dominion.

            But we must instead trace our roots through the faithful remnant in the Alpine valleys, the place of refuge God provided for His people away from the face of the serpent, well outside of Rome. I’ll be focusing on that in the coming months.

            Thanks,

            Tim

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            1. Tim, yes, this is really the issue. The two strikes of the stone puts antichrist in earthly dominion and the saints receiving a heavenly kingdom. And I agree, Protestants have capitulated to the 4th and 5th century church being Roman. The words ” My kingdom is not of this world” should connote to us a spiritual kingdom and not Christ ruling thru earthly restrainers that God has set in place. MacArthur says that America is the first composite society and blessed because of it. He says, much like you, where the church has tried to impose orthodoxy or orthopaxy thru civil government, it didn’t go well. Those restrainers have long been directed by sinful men. Do you consider the a part of Antichrist’s earthly dominion to include civil governments ( often in the name of Christ)? I am in total agreement that you have resisted the typical engagements with Romanists on jbfa Romans 4:5, and engaging on their axiom of Rome being the true church. But, you have instead identified their axiom of sola eclessia, denying the discussion on their terms. Also, understanding the 2 strikes and Daniel 2 and 7, as you have pointed out, is paramount for a complete understanding of scriptural things, namely where the church was and is, where Antichrist was and is, all other doctrines are confirmed by this. How many of the councils do you accept in the early church. Those before 389 or so? I see where your going. You have established the eschatological position of the 2 strikes which has allowed you to identify Roman Catholicism as Antichrist, allowed you to now trace the true church and where it went. It has allowed you to identify false novel doctrines, when they arose in the church. In this comment section you said at some point you will address Romans 4:5 and justification. Is that still a part of your plan? Thanks K.

            2. Kevin, yes it is still part of my plans to address Romans 4:5 and justification.

               Thanks,

               Tim

   2. Tim, aren’t you embarrassed? Kevin says Mary would be embarrassed to hear Catholics praising her. What about you. This poor man worships you. And you let him do it. Tell him to get up off his knees. Rend your garments. He blasphemes. He renders to a creature what belongs to God.

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3. Tim, JC Ryle says false teaching does not just jump out and say here I am, false teaching. But is its subtle and it sounds like the truth. He gives an example of listening to a catholic Priest preach a sermon one time. I sounded so right for the longest time. But Ryle says we must always continue to listen. And there it was the heresy. Satan will make good look evil and evil look good. This is Rome. and you are so succinctly unwrapping this. Thanks brother. Couple things hope you will hit. Salvation thru doing the sacraments of the new law to merit increase versus a life of faith and the proper role of Sacraments. And justification. I think 2 Timothy 1:9 is the most amazing verse ” who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted to us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.” Tim, can it be any clearer and summed up than this, a complete repudiation of the Romanists urge to smuggle their own character into the work of God’s grace.

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4. Tim, Yes, a remarkable and and growing abdication of the faith once for all delivered. And our people are just embracing this false religion that has bewitched the gullible world with its drama and peagentry. Its the emperor in his new robes. Tim, if we aren’t experiencing spiritual warfare and problems in our relationships with Catholics, then we aren’t sharing the gospel. Tim, We just lost my wife’s friends who is hook line and sinker into all the idolatry, mysticism and merit of the Roman church in her climb to justification. And it was because we decided to share the gospel of Christ. I mean sparks flew like you wouldn’t believe with the most holy appearing people. It was a spiritual battle unknown to my wife and I, and I have been living on those front lines my whole Christian walk. If we decide to confront Roman catholicism it probably won’t go well much of the time. And if its all harmony then we aren’t really confronting it. But Sproul is right, people only care about the relationship in expense of the truth. As you have pointed out, the Reformers lost everything and their live putting the truth out there, and here our people are just embracing it, spitting on the graves of the Luthers, Calvins, Knoxs, Ryles, Spurgeons, Cramners, Tyndales, etc. Sad. we must pray for the ignorance of the evangelical church, which only is matched by their lack of courage. K

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5. Tim, For Spurgeon, Rome was a deadly enemy. He said we can have no peace with Rome and they can have no peace with us. He said this “War” to the knife with her. We shall love their people and not touch a hair on their priests head, but we shall hate their doctrines, as if they were the doctrines of men. We should pray against this giant evil every day, that Christ would throw it into the bottom of the sea. And our prayers will be sweetened as we shall turn our face way from it and towards Christ when we pray.

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   1. Except they did no such thing. They rebelled against Christ when they rebelled against the Church, and thus they hated Truth.

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6. If evangelicalism and romanism are at bottom essentially arminian (so JIPacker in his intro to Luther’s Bondage of the Will) it does not surprise me that mariolatry is becoming more popular in evangelicalism.

   And FWIW, more ignorant of scripture mariolatry can be found here:
   Oh, White Lady: Faith as a Struggle

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   1. Excellent Bob. And they are softening on the Pope too.

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7. Tim, is there a link to the edition of Spurgeon’s Hooded Geese that you mention elsewhere?
   thanks,

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   1. Bob,

      If you’re referring to the tract, it can be found here: http://www.spurgeon.org/s_and_t/tract22.htm

      If you’re referring to the book I edited by the same title, it can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Geese-their-Hoods-Selected-Catholicism/dp/0963714171

      My favorite review is this one: “Kauffman (who has no life apart from savaging Catholics) has pulled the moldering corpse of Spurgeon’s dumbest and ugliest anti-Catholic snipes so that little minds and littler hearts can pick the scabs of anti-Catholicism and drink the running pus.”

      Let me know if that was not what you were looking for.

      Best,

      Tim

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      1. How do you know if sturgeon’s goose is not being cooked in hell as we speak?

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      2. Tim, as I re read this awesome post and this review quote I am daily reminded I am in the trench with you willing to take the bullets to burn the light of the Reformation that Rome is evil, the very antichrist before us. It helps to re read things. Dont ever lose this fervor brother, ever. May the Lord keep you in his word.

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8. Bob, are you lumping all evangelical churches into Arminian as Rome is Arminian?

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   1. No, Arminianism is Roman. We were there first.

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9. Thanks, Tim.

   The whole thing isn’t online Kevin, but here’s part.

   Much modern Protestantism would be neither owned nor even recognized by the pioneer Reformers. The Bondage of the Will fairly sets before us what they believed about the salvation of lost mankind. In light of it, we are forced to ask whether Protestant Christendom has not tragically sold its birthright between Luther’s day and our own. Has not Protestantism today become more Erasmian [and Roman Catholic in theology] than Lutheran [and Reformed]? Do we not too often try to minimize and gloss over doctrinal differences for the sake of inter-party peace? Are we innocent of the doctrinal indifferentism with which Luther charged Erasmus? Do we still believe that doctrine matters [in particular, the doctrine of The Bondage of the Will]? Or do we, with Erasmus, rate a deceptive appearance of unity as of more importance than truth? (59-60). To accept the principles which Martin Luther vindicates in The Bondage of the Will would certainly involve a mental and spiritual revolution for many Christians at the present time. . . . We are compelled to ask ourselves: If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever–is any other position than Luther’s possible? Surely no more important or far-reaching question confronts the church today (60-61).

   IOW how many “evangelicals” would affirm Sola Gratia, i.e. sovereign predestinating electing grace alone?
   We know they got Sola Fide, Sola Christo and Sola Scriptura down pat (sort of), but again Sola Gratia and Solo Deo Gloria?

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   1. Bob, Do you also just happen to be a former Catholic?

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   2. Luther believed in the Real Presence and was very much devoted to Mary. You speak of conforming yourselves to Luther’s position, but you do not even know what Luther’s position was.

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10. Bob, thanks for posting and answering. I’m with you now I understand what you were saying.

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11. Tim,
    You said, “There is, and has been for a long time, a tendency to miss the obvious: that Rome is the Antichrist that was prophesied. ”

    This really is the funniest thing I’ve seen in a long time. So pathetically hysterical – as if you can point out the antichrist! Somebody has to be paying you $$.

    The word “antichrist” is not found even once in the book of Revelation. That in itself should send warning bells off. In fact, the word “antichrist” is only found in 4 passages. All were written by St. John.
    1 John 2:18-19 “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us.”
    1 John 2:22-23 “Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.”
    1 John 4:2-3 “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.”
    2 John 1:7 “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”

    Very clear that the anti-christ will deny Jesus in the flesh. You forget we Catholics adore Jesus in the flesh and give glory to Almighty God that He sent His only begotten Son for our salvation IN THE FLESH, and was crucified in the flesh. This is the test of the anti-christ, the anti-incarnation of the Son of God.

    You’re looking up the wrong tree. But Kevin is right there with you. I forgot to mention that Kevin is a paranoid conspiracy theory type guy (worries and is anxious a lot) and you are bleeding him dry. So sad, so despicably tragic. While he is chasing ‘squirrels’ for you he is leaving himself totally unprotected.

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    1. Hi, Debbie, as regards your comment,

       This really is the funniest thing I’ve seen in a long time. So pathetically hysterical – as if you can point out the antichrist! Somebody has to be paying you $$.

       Thank you for indulging me. I assure you, there is no money to be made in what I am doing here. You are quite correct when you write:

       The word “antichrist” is not found even once in the book of Revelation. That in itself should send warning bells off. In fact, the word “antichrist” is only found in 4 passages. All were written by St. John.

       Let’s compare some of the Scriptural apocalyptic literature for a moment:

       “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come…” (1 John 2:18)

       “…Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?… For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: … And then shall that Wicked be revealed, … Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)

       “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” (1 Timothy 4:1)

       “…the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, …And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies… “(Revelation 13:4-5)

       “…another beast coming up out of the earth; …And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast … And he doeth great wonders, … And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;…” (Revelation 13:11-14).

       “…and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.” (Daniel 7:8)

       I believe the Scripture has the same one in mind by different names: Little Horn, Wicked One, Man of Sin, Antichrist. So just because John is the only one who speaks of Antichrist by that name, it does not necessarily mean no one else spoke of Antichrist under his different names. You continued:

       Very clear that the anti-christ will deny Jesus in the flesh. You forget we Catholics adore Jesus in the flesh and give glory to Almighty God that He sent His only begotten Son for our salvation IN THE FLESH, and was crucified in the flesh. This is the test of the anti-christ, the anti-incarnation of the Son of God.

       Debbie, have you never read, “This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me” (Mark 7:6), and “with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness” (Ezekiel 33:31)?

       Do you understand that it is possible to profess to honor God while in reality dishonoring Him? To profess to love Him, while in your heart practicing covetousness and idolatry? You have no idea how anti-incarnational you really are. Among the religions of the world, Roman Catholicism is among the most anti-incarnational of them all.

       I shall have to write an entry on that topic sometime soon.

       Warm regards,

       Tim

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12. To be anti-christ is to be against the complete fullness of the Divinity of Jesus Christ and against the complete fullness of the Humanity of Jesus Christ (He has a soul). Paring down either of these is the work of the anti-christ.

    It is totally all in both or the beginning of nothing.

    By the way, the 60,000 sects of Protestantism leave out a lot of the fleshy stuff and/or the mystical spiritual stuff whenever they want and no one says anything because they just go next door. HMMMM

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13. Maybe Debbie can tell us Catholics genuflect when they pass the Monstrance and the Tabernacle. After they take the Host do they genuflect to each other, since they are tabernacles?

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    1. Got it ! Thanks Kevin. Priceless.
       Dude, I am so worried Jason will weaken. I need you to keep saying stuff like this. I will do all in my power to keep you away from his blog. I think I have enough material but I want as much as I can get for sharing with others.

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14. Tweets from the supposed anti-christ:

    Jesus is our hope. Nothing – not even evil or death – is able to separate us from the saving power of his love.

    We are called to live our baptism every day, as new creatures, clothed in Christ.

    It is not enough to say we are Christians. We must live the faith, not only with our words, but with our actions.

    We cannot think of a Church without joy. This is the joy of the Church: announcing to all the name of Jesus.

    Your sins are great? Just tell the Lord: Forgive me, help me to get up again, change my heart!

    The Church is missionary. Christ sends us forth to bring the joy of the Gospel to the whole world.

    Our life must be centered on what is essential, on Jesus Christ. Everything else is secondary.

    Being a Christian means renouncing ourselves, taking up the cross and carrying it with Jesus. There is no other way.

    The crucifix does not signify defeat or failure. It reveals to us the Love that overcomes evil and sin.

    We cannot give up in the face of evil. God is Love and he has defeated evil through Christ’s death and resurrection.

    The Church has no other meaning and finality than to witness to Jesus. May we not forget this.

    We are all sinners, but we experience the joy of God’s forgiveness and we walk forward trusting in his mercy.

    There is no such thing as low-cost Christianity. Following Jesus means swimming against the tide, renouncing evil and selfishness

    By his coming among us, Jesus transforms our lives. In him, we see that God is love, he is fidelity he is life who gives himself.

    The love of God is not something vague or generic; the love of God has a name and a face: Jesus Christ.

    Jesus is the gate opening up to salvation, a gate open to everyone.

    Don’t be afraid to ask God for forgiveness. He never tires of forgiving us. God is pure mercy.

    The Lord speaks to us through the Scriptures and in our prayer. Let us learn to keep silence before him, as we meditate upon the Gospel.

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    1. Debbie, here are some “tweets” from Satan and his devils:

       • “He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.” (Matthew 4:6)

       • “These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.” (Acts 16:17)

       • “Thou art the Son of God.” (Mark 3:11)

       • “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?” (Acts 19:15)

       • “there is one God” (James 2:19).

       • “Thou art Christ the Son of God.” (Luke 4:41).

       • “I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” (Mark 1:24).

       Just something to keep in mind. The devil does not deceive by outright rejection of the truth. The devil deceives by appearing to affirm the truth outwardly, while introducing error to those who will listen to him.

       Tim

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       1. And the Pharisees said of Jesus, “This man casts out devils by the prince of devils.” Jesus pointed out the absurdity of that claim by saying, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”

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15. “After they take the Host do they genuflect to each other, since they are tabernacles?”

    Pretty much, yes. It is mind, blowing. And all Christians of all denominations should do that for one another because we believe Christ is in each one who is baptized. We are temples of the Holy Spirit.

    This will make you crazy, but in ecstasy (you won’t know what this is, you can google it up on a Catholic site) once I literally saw for a brief moment Christ in all those around me.

    My suffering is in not living and loving as I have seen.

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16. ” This is the funniest thing I’ve seen in along time.” Maybe you don’t get out much. There is a gigantic history of theologians and writers who have thought and documented that the Roman church was the very Antichrist. Christ’s flesh is in heaven, he left the true church with the Spirit. The church isn’t the natural body of Christ. He brings us all blessings at the supper thru the Spirit. He doesn’t keep showing up in his body, keeping the incarnation continuing, as an eternal victim being continually sacrificed for the atonement of sins. “It is finished” He said he accomplished all that father gave him. Repent of eating increases of your salvation by doing the mass and your works, and receive Christ to day by faith, receive the gospel and be saved.

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    1. And the Jews call Jesus a blasphemer and the son of a harlot. That doesn’t make their claims true, either.

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17. Sorry, just can’t stop giggling.

    Especially when I read, “There is a gigantic history of theologians and writers who have thought and documented that the Roman church was the very Antichrist.”

    They’ve documented that have they – where are they now?
    And Satan is laughing all the time at the stupidity of humans and their quest to allay their fears. That was the original temptation and still the one today.

    There is only one thing that Satan fears – the Most Precious Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Literally.

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18. Thanks for that admission. Well you should repent of all the times you have not given proper knelt to people and honor to the Host inside of people. Maybe someone can put you up on a standard and march you around the streets. And people can worship you the substantial body of Christ. As Augustine said, Christ isn’t in the bread, but the one taking the bread. It becomes his body and blood by faith, the Spirit and the Word. And it is a sign and seal of the grace that we have thru faith alone. It was more like a potluck in the early church. Do this in remembrance of me. It is not an abominable re sacrifice , a Roman work to earn increase of grace and justice. 2 Timothy 1:9 says it all” who saved us and called us with a holy calling, NOT according to our works, but according to His purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity. No infused medicine, but from all eternity decreed by God.

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    1. Debbie, This is choice! You know, I am saving all this stuff to copy and paste to any Catholic blog owner that even considers letting this fellow post.
       I can’t tell if Kevin is a mental defective or actually demonic. I am not one for being fixated on the demonic but Kevin is so weird. Right out of the Gangs of New York.
       When I was a little kid, cars would drive around with big speaker horns on the roof and the driver would rant like Kevin.
       Does he have a job? ( Don’t answer that here). Is he high? I would love to see what he looks like. I think he could be dangerous to Catholic elderly, women and children. I would not want him standing behind me. Seriously. He is a bad dream.

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       1. He may be ignorantly deceived, but his beliefs are as demonic as those of the Pharisees who accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan. It is beyond perverse- it is a belief that places one in grave danger of committing the unpardonable sin.

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19. Tim,
    “Tim, I pray that you continue to make these distinctions. We are to call out false teaching.”

    Can I ask what you think (I do realize it is only your opinion and therefore if I don’t like it I can ignore it) of:
    1. John MacArthur
    2. Robert Schuller
    3. Henrietta Mears

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20. Tim,
    Did you know that John MacArthur believes that the anti-christ will be Muslim?

    “The bible’s Antichrist is Islam’s savior.” “The bible’s Antichrist is their Mahdi.” “The Mahdi is the exact replica of the Antichrist.” “The nations that will be a coalition for the Antichrist–all eight of those are Muslim nations.”

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    1. Good one Deb!

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21. I found this so interesting:

    John MacArthur states that Christians can take the Mark of the Beast and still get to Heaven. He is promoting the counterfeits that will deceive the masses during the Tribulation. (See: Straight From the Pit of Hell: John Macarthur Teaches that People Who Take the Mark of the Beast can Repent and be Saved.)

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    1. Debbie,

       Since the Lord says to His precious people, “Come out of her, my people” (Revelation 18:4), I have every confidence that His people can be saved out of the errors of Antichrist.

       Thanks,

       Tim

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       1. Then you say so in defiance of the Scriptures, which state that everyone who takes the Mark of the Beast will “drink the cup of God’s wrath in the Lake of Fire,” and that no one whose name is in the Book of Life will take the Mark of the Beast. Furthermore, Revelation has a curse on it: Whoever takes away from it will have their name taken out of the Book of Life.

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          1. Andrew,

             The Scripture also says this of “murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars” (Revelation 21:8). Do you believe that even those who have repented of murder, whoremongering, sorcery, idolatry and lying will also be cast into the lake of fire? Then who can be saved?

             Tim

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22. “where are they now” Right here along with all who went before us. Mathew 11:12 ” From the days of John the baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.” Spurgeon said call yourself a Priest sir, I dare say you would take the name, when I consider all the crimes and villainies committed under a false Priesthood, I would rather a man looked at me in the street and called me the devil, than call me a Priest. sometimes they call us Laity, But God calls us his royal priesthood, cleras. We go directly to the Father thru the sympathetic and only high priest who understands all our needs.

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    1. Did you know that spurgeons can get up to 10 feet long? I don’t really care for the taste but if you smother it in tartar sauce it’s okay.
       Also, spurgeons are both sexes.

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23. Well since the scripture says there are many antichrists and MacArthur has said the Roman Pontiff is antichrist, he is consistent with scripture.

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    1. And MacArthur is divinely inspired isn’t he?

       Reply

    2. But the same Scripture also says that he is antichrist who denies that Jesus came in the Flesh. Now the Popes may be a lot of things, but antichrists they aren’t, for they affirm that Jesus Christ came in the Flesh.

       Reply

       1. Andrew,

          As you know, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they honored Him with their lips, but in their hearts they denied him (see Isaiah 29:13, Matthew 15:8, Mark 7:6). The fact that the pope affirms with his lips that Jesus came in the flesh does not exclude the fact that in his heart, he rejects the very incarnation he claims to affirm. You can see the rest of my thoughts at Removing Jesus.

          Romanism as a religion is a material rejection of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. Just such statements as yours, in which you opine that “sin cannot be in the presence of Christ” is a material rejection of the incarnation. Jesus became man because sin could not be in the presence of His Father. That’s why He had to become man. We come to the Father through Christ because we cannot go directly to Him in our sin. To say that we now cannot come into the presence of the incarnate Christ, and therefore need an intermediary between us and Him is not only a rejection of the incarnation, but a rejection of the Father as well, for the Father “sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins (1 John 4:10), “And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).

          Your error is in thinking that Jesus’ death was not sufficient propitiation for us, and that as “Jesus Christ the righteous” is an advocate before the Father, we must therefore be righteous in order to approach Jesus. We most certainly do not. We must be righteous before approaching the Father, and “Jesus Christ the Righteous” is our righteousness for us. That is why we approach the Father only through Him.

          Thanks for writing,

          Tim

          Reply

24. Like JC Ryle said” Roman Catholicism is one gigantic system of church worship, Mary worship, sacrament worship, relic worship, saint worship, bread worship.”

    Reply

    1. Like Alfred E Neumann said, ” It’s crac
       kers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide”.

       Every time some bigot breaks wind against the Catholic Church, you act like its a revelation from God.

       Reply

25. Tim, She is trying to turn you against me by getting you to denounce John MacArthur since she knows I was saved in his church. She and Jim just want to disrupt the push against roman Catholicism. It won’t work.

    Reply

    1. Saved Kevin? Entering the Church is getting saved. That’s true. But you can lose it. You ain’t safely saved til you get to heaven.

       Reply

26. Believe me, I don’t have to try to turn any Protestant against another Protestant of a different slant.

    I see it happen all the time, I’m just trying to figure out who figures out who is right and what and who will make YOU change your mind. Because you do know you keep changing your mind don’t you?

    Reply

27. I’ve also read that John MacArthur changes his mind a lot and “shouldn’t be held responsible because after all, he has done so much good preaching over the past 50 years.”

    Reply

28. 1 John 1:27 ” As for you , the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you” but as His anointing you about ALL things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” Your assignment, go learn this verse and what it means. Hint. God the Spirit teaches us all things. We don’t mindlessly accept what the church says. This does not mean that we don’t submit to the teaching of our churches, but in the end it isn’t the men with the words but the HolySpirit who teaches us all things. As Walt has pointed out we shave absolutes in our confessions, But semper reformanda means always being reformed to the word of God and the Spirit, to insure we never repeat the errors and false doctrines of the Roman church. Pope Gregory the ninth said ” I am God and I can’t error” We can see the mysticism, Saint and Mary worship, and false gospel that developed in the medieval Roman church. The counter Reformation Trent was an impulsive reaction of semi plagiarism amongst other things. If you ever did a real study of church history, which you won’t, because you are blinded and there remains a veil over your face, you will find the church you belong to is NOTHING similar to the early church before 4th century. Mary, sacraments, mass, gospel, saints, all changed. You would do well to listen to Walt and Tim, who have been lost in the same spot you were, and they believed the gospel and were saved. Our heart breaks for you and your family. Romans 9: 30 for the gentiles who not looking for righteousness found it because the found it by faith, but the Jews who were pursuing it by law, didn’t find it, because they they didn’t pursue it by faith.” Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe.” rome is the NT version of the jusdaizers. Lord open her eyes that she may see. The truth will set you free miss.

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29. Sorry, I’m still smiling (and dancing).

    Reply

30. You can’t fool me, you are a troubled soul. You can’t believe that gospel and have peace. Impossible.

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31. ” This is hysterical as if you can point out the antichrist” An 18th century Puritan said Papacy is the true antichrist and anyone who cannot see it has a strong delusion on them.” the Pope is called Holy Father, head of the church, and vicar. Three names reserved for God. Of all the dreams that have ever deluded men and of all the blasphemies ever been uttered, is that the Bishop of Rome could be the head of the church, no these Popes die, and how can the church live if its head were dead. But Colossians tells us that Christ is the head of his church, and the church forever lives in him.” Charles Spurgeon.

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32. Debbie, would you say, after reading the way Kevin fawns over every utterance of Tim”s that he renders Tim Latria, dulia or Hypedulia? Or just a good shoe shine?
    If someone talked to me like Kevin talks to Tim, I would avoid them out of embarrassment.
    Tim accepts and extends his jeweled hand for a spitty kissing as a reward his minion and devotee.

    Reply

33. “You can’t believe that gospel and have peace. Impossible.”

    I don’t know what this means. Are you saying that I don’t have peace?

    Truly, truly I have more peace than I’ve EVER had in my whole life. My hands, yes I know you hate this, BURN with passion, in fact my left hand is burning with love as I am typing this. Blessings upon blessings keep coming, which in all humility, I/my family absolutely don’t deserve – so all we can do is just give it away. And then more drops on our lap and we have to keep sending it someone’s way.

    This is in a big part, thanks to you. Thank you, you prayers are being answered.

    The suffering we have experienced out of LOVE for you has enriched our lives three-fold. I am dying inside because of the loss of my best friend here on earth; so I accidentally run into a Greek woman who talks to me at length about how important Gardenia’s are to the Greeks.

    I now have a beautiful Gardenia bush in my living room in honor of my best friend who I am waiting for (and her husband) to come back to me in love, not hate.

    But I am literally dancing in prayer for their safe return.

    Kevin, I have seen it, it will happen, and I will wait for it until my dying breath.

    Reply

34. Its all about you. Return to you? The gospel is outside ourselves. Take your eyes off yourself and your church and see.

    Reply

35. Tim,

    Here is another tweet from the supposed anti-christ;

    “Our life has been save by the Blood of Christ. Let us always be renewed by this Love.”

    I was wondering (after you give me your opinion on the three leaders I gave you) if you could write me your specific personal faith of the Most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ and how it saves you and your children and your grandchildren.

    I have asked Kevin to write me his personal witness of love and praise to our Lord, but he has yet to do it.

    I wouldn’t think this would be difficult since we are temples of the Holy Spirit and His love flows through us.

    Thanks in advance,
    Debbie

    Reply

    1. Hi, Debbie,

       Thanks for your note. You are always welcome here. I agree that I have been saved by His blood:

       “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God” (Romans 3:24-25).

       Yes, I have faith in His blood, shed for me for the remission of sins. Faith in what Christ did for me, “Who was delivered for our offences” (Romans 4:25). What Pope Francis means by being saved by the Blood of Christ is the blood of the Eucharistic sacrifice of Rome: “In the Eucharist, we renew the gift of the Body and Blood of Christ for the remission of sins…”. I do not believe that the Eucharist is the blood of Christ shed for me.

       What I find interesting in Roman Catholic devotion to the Eucharist is that the Last Supper is considered the “real” sacrifice for sins, as that is the only time in the Passion narratives that Jesus actually offers something to God as a “sacrifice,” as the Catholic Legate helpfully instructs us:

       “Was the sacrifice of Calvary bloody or unbloody? Actually, it was BOTH! The Last Supper was the real sacrificial offering of Christ for sin and it certainly was unbloody. Without the Last Supper I defy you to find any reference to the Body and Blood of Christ being offered as a sacrifice for sin in the entire of the Passion Narratives. Christ did not offer his body and blood to God during the passion. …Sacrifice is not the act of killing the victim but of offering it to God. That is the big mistake of the Protestant over-emphasis on the cross to the detriment of other aspects of Christ’s work.” (emphasis added)

       If you really believe that Jesus instituted an unbloody sacrifice for sins, you should join me in rejecting all the Eucharistic miracles, in which the host turns to actual flesh and blood, for they are all merely trying to lead you astray from your unbloody sacrifice. The Catechism teaches you,

       “In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 1367).

       Shouldn’t this mean that all the bleeding Eucharists do not contain Christ, since in the “real” Mass, the “real” Christ is allegedly “offered in an unbloody manner”? In what way does a miraculously bloody wafer confirm for you the doctrine of an unbloody sacrifice?

       Thanks,

       Tim

       Reply

       1. It is written, “I saw a Lamb who was slain, yet lives.”

          Reply

36. Ha Ha good one my persnickety brother,
    I am waiting for you to turn back to our friendship in love.
    That I haven’t seen but am so hopeful because

    I HAVE SEEN your return …….

    Reply

37. A relationship has two pillars, trust and respect. We found out we had neither with you and your husband. There is no friendship. But we are always praying for you to understand the scripture and be saved from the control the Roman catholic church, that is the love I have always offered you, to tell you the thruth of the gospel. If you can understand Romans 9:30-10:4 and Romans 10:9-10, 2 Timothy 1:9, you will be free. Then your whole understanding of the supper as a simply a gift of God as Christ in present to us by faith. You will reject the mass which is the work on the part of man to offer Christ up again and yourself for your sins. He already did that on the cross and Hrbrews 10:14 says it perfected us. Hebrews 10:18 says “where there is forgiveness of these there remains no more offering for sins. “It is finished” This constrains Rome’s abominable mass.Please learn from Tim. There isn’t anything he does not understand about you. He stood where you are once and was freed. Walt also. I will not be engaging you anymore. It is unfruitful. We all love in different ways. God bless you and your family, keep seeking the truth and it will set you free!

    Reply

38. Kevin,

    “Then your whole understanding of the supper as a simply a gift of God as Christ in present to us by faith. You will reject the mass which is …”

    If the Supper of a morsel of tasteless bread and a thimble of grape juice is a gift from God, it is rather parsimonious. I would rather chomp down on the lamb chops. And I want all 4 cups of wine.

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39. Kevin,

    “Rome’s abominable mass”. Your inability to to not offend is the reason why you are missing all the fun on Jason’s new thread. New bloggers, both Catholic and Protestant, men and women. Fast and furious repartee.
    And you, Cinderfella’, sit over hear alone, waiting for Debbie or me to come over and throw you a bone. ( Nick ain’t coming. Not to throw mud with you. )

    Reply

    1. Hi, Jim,

       The offense you take at the phrase, “Rome’s abominable mass” is understandable, but it may, in some small way, be due to your unfamiliarity with the Westminster Confession, so I’ll cite it here for you:

       “In this sacrament, Christ is not offered up to His Father; nor any real sacrifice made at all, for remission of sins of the quick or dead; but only a commemoration of that one offering up of Himself, by Himself, upon the cross, once for all: and a spiritual oblation of all possible praise unto God, for the same: so that the popish sacrifice of the mass (as they call it) is most abominably injurious to Christ’s one, only sacrifice, the alone propitiation for all the sins of His elect.” (Westminster Confession of Faith, XXIX Of the Lord’s Supper, paragraph II).

       When a protestant speaks of Rome’s abominable mass, it is consistent with our understanding of the Scripture, and the Westminster Divines used terminology that I find most agreeable: “the popish sacrifice of the mass … is most abominably injurious to Christ’s.” You may find it offensive, but it is simply what we believe. As this is a web site established and managed by a confessing reformed evangelical, you’ll have to give a little latitude to those of us who enjoy expressing our faith as much as you do expressing yours.

       Thanks,

       Tim

       Reply

40. Tim, I do appreciate you response, but I have to ask,
    This is it? “I have faith in His blood, shed for me for the remission of sins. Faith in what Christ did for me.”
    I would expect so much more . . . your salvation is ALL about His Most Precious Blood.
    Maybe we could find common ground with inserting the word LOVE for BLOOD, for in truth that is what it is (you know well enough that your ransom was not paid in earthly currency, silver or gold; it was paid in the Precious Blood of Christ). I think we can agree that the LOVE of God would be a most unearthly precious price.
    So when you do this, the Eucharist (which means thanksgiving) is a way to open a gift (God loves Tim), say thank you (I love You) and then use the gift (I will Love). It is a beautiful way to experience your salvation. The Incarnation of the only Begotten Son of God made your salvation possible. The key word here is INCARNATION. Throughout His time on earth, our Lord was really God and really man. Not everyone experienced both these natures 100% of the time. They saw Him tired and sick, and then they saw Him multiply loaves and fish.
    Tell me, if someone would have taken a piece of Jesus’ flesh when He was on earth and put it under a microscope, do you think they would have seen that He was the Son of God? No, you had to listen to His words and believe with faith, and then look hard at His works for proof.
    Likewise, if someone were to take a consecrated host today and put it under a microscope, do you think they would see that it was the Son of God? No, you would have to listen to His words and believe with faith, and then look hard at His works for proof. But still God allows once in a great while a miracle that proves otherwise. How do you know that an acorn buried in the ground will really grow into an oak tree? You don’t until you see it happen over and over and over again.
    You quoted this correctly from Pope Francis, “In the Eucharist, we renew the gift of the Body and Blood of Christ for the remission of sins.” BUT you didn’t quote it correctly when you went to talk about it (very purposefully sneaky, makes me worry about you Tim).
    You said I don’t believe that “Eucharist is the blood of Christ shed for me”. You used past tense. In the sacrament of the Eucharist we are thankfully receiving the gift of the Body of Christ, the Blood of Christ, the soul of Christ and the Divinity of Christ – present tense. He isn’t re-dying in the Eucharist; He is renewing His gift of His Body and Blood for our nourishment and life in Him. He is alive!! Jesus Christ is alive!!
    A SACRIFICE is an offering; those who receive COMMUNION offer themselves to our Lord as a gift (a renewing of our gift of self to God) and Christ renew his gift to us – hence communion, and exchange, a merger.
    Do you really offer your whole body to our Lord?
    I do, I offer all of my heart, soul, mind and strength, every cell, every thought. . my all.
    Our Lord offers the same, over and over and over again.
    Unbloody and bloody in the most sublime way.

    From now on, no matter how you feel about the Eucharist, you better have a more glorious answer about how you praise and glorify the precious gift of Jesus’ Blood or someone may think you really don’t care. Remember, there is only one thing that Satan is fearful of – the Most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ! Amen.

    Reply

    1. And even the miracles only reveal human Flesh and Blood, albeit incorruptable. His Divinity remains invisible

       Reply

41. Jim, As Calvin said the a sacrament is a sign, seal, and confirmation of God’s grace and it strengthens our faith. Augustine called it the visible Word. Mathew 26:11 ” for you always have the poor with you; but you do NOT always have Me. Again Aquinas love for Aristotle and the philosophers, they got the globe upside down. Christ’s body is in heaven and we wait for his return. His natural body is not present to us in the substituted Roman church or in the Eucharist. He is really present to us in the supper thru faith, the Spirit, and the word. He truly nourishes our faith. But the writer of Hebrews condemned the need for the physical on earth. Rome is a replay of OT Judaism. The sacraments of the new law are the sacrifices of the OT administered by sinful men, and they do not save. The physical Priest hood, the physical sacrifice of the mass and the physical altar is shrinking back in one’s faith. The Writer of hebrews called this need for the physical presence shrinking back in one’s faith. Christ is in heaven where his Priesthood, sacrifice and altar are, and we are transported there by faith thru the Spirit. Cosmic Jesus everywhere on a Roman altar is Jesus of Nazareth nowhere. We pray thy kingdom come. It is not fleshed out now as the Roman church finishes his incarnation thru their works of propitiation. It is finished. He was delivered over for our transgressions and raised for our justification. The Supper in our church is a remembrance and a meal of thanksgiving with our Lord about what was already accomplished on the cross. The sacrifice he made is a blanket across history for all sins past, present, future. Therefore having been justified by faith, we have shalom with god. Not a cease fire, but peace. Peter said we received an inheritance, imperishable, reserved in heaven for us, that will never fade away. Ephesians says we have sealed in the Spirit, adopted and seated in heaven with Christ. Now judge your abominable mass in light of everything I just said.

    Reply

42. “He isn’t re dying in the Eucharist” This is what I have told you 1000 times and you are either dense or blind. Learn your doctrine. You said you believed every WORD of it. Trent anathematizes anyone who says it ISNT a real sacrifice. You church teaches that the mass is a REAL sacrifice sacrificium. You got that, real sacrifice for sins. So your church IS re breaking the Lord’s body in an unbloody way so you can eat increases in justice and grace. . It is a work on the part of the believer merit an increase of grace and justice as you work your way to heaven. We are saved by faith and not ex opere operato participation in the sacraments of the new law. The reformers had a cow with Rome over ex opera operato sacraments. They are gifts and the visible seal and confirmation of god’s grace, they are not a way of meriting one’s salvation. Justification in Rome is a recognition of an intrinsic qualification for a reward, but for Paul it was a declaration about someone completely and intrinsically unqualified. May God break thru your veil.

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43. Tim catch this. She causes you of being slick, lets look at how slick she is. ” A sacrifice is an offering, those who receive communion offer themselves to our Lord as a gift, and Christ renews his gift to us, hence a merger.” Let me translate. You offer yourself as a sacrifice ( you say gift) to earn a merit and an increase in justice and grace for you and your dead friends. ” and Christ renews his gift to us” Let me translate. I do the work and offer the sacrifice and he gives me the( gift hah ha) of grace. ” Hence a merger” Let me translate. I cooperate with grace and merit increase. False gospel. Christ offered himself ONCE at the consummation of the ages and it perfected us. Heb.10:14. We don’t sacrifice ourselves to merit increase. He made the sacrifice and his grace is FREE. We simply receive Christ by faith. ” The righteous shall live by faith” Incidentally Hebrews says WITHOUT the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins. So the un bloody sacrifice of the mass is of no use. And Hebrews says “there are NO MORE sacrifices for sin. We can read thru your slick lingo.

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44. Oh, my goodness, did you not read and understand what I wrote? Can you be that dense? What does the word s-u-b-l-i-m-e mean? What do all my examples mean? Can you not interpret analogy?
    Did you not read what a sacrifice is?

    I’m hoping Tim can make out (since it was written for him) a little better than you.

    You don’t know ANYTHING but what you’ve memorized about the Catholic Church and you don’t even understand what you’ve memorized.

    It really is so funny, I’ve never met anyone who tries to argue against something they know nothing about and not worry about how stupid they sound.

    Please once again I’m begging you to give a sentence of praise to our Lord Jesus Christ, I really am beginning to believe you can’t do it. Something off the cuff, just a sentence of love and undying thankfulness.

    By the way, a wear a veil when I receive communion because I can’t hardly walk up in line anymore – the sheer love about cripples me. God is the one who gave me the veil.

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45. If you knew your doctrine, i might care about what you say. But you don’t, and i don’t. You said ” He isn’t re dying in the Eucharist” Trent says He is. Bryan Cross, when I cornered hi said “it is a real sacrifice” and “we do increase” You don’t know anything about what you memorized about the Catholic church. Hello? So do you know what a sacrifice is? Apparently not. i’ve never met someone who tries to argue something they know nothing about. Please deny for me that Trent says that the sacrifice of the mass is a real sacrifice that is efficacious for sins. Please deny that the mass is a work on the part of the participant that earns a merit for increase of grace and justice. And please deny that the mass is a sacrifice of oneself to propitiate their sin. I don’t think i’ll be hearing from you. Learn your doctrine. Like my wife says we pray behind our door and do our works in secret, we don’t have to tell someone how feeble kneed we get to receive the eucharist. God knows my heart, I have nothing to prove to you. I given you the most loving thing I could ever give you, and you spit on me. Never again.

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46. Well, I can’t just not respond even though you were hoping not to hear from me again. I’ve just spent several hours trying to find a way to explain this to you with your own understanding and vocabulary. I’ve deleted numerous sentences because they would literally be unrecognizable to you. And you don’t like or ‘get’ analogies. If you can’t understand Bryan Cross, I don’t know who you can. It takes a sense of mystery and awareness of Heaven and earth being full of the Glory of God. I listed the words and phrases you don’t understand in their CATHOLIC MEANING and realize that nothing in your entire history could have prepared you to understand anything but anti-Catholic rhetoric.
    These are the only things left that you might possibly understand:

    Sacrifice (surrender or forfeit)
    efficacious (successful)
    earns (receives) a merit (worth)
    increase (intensify)
    grace (life of the Trinity) justice (truthfulness)
    oneself (my total personhood)

    I tried, but minimizing the sacredness of the Catholic Mass of our Lord Jesus Christ wasn’t in me. “We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son, Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Be safe and keep yourself from idols.” I John 5: 18-21

    I won’t bother you anymore. But you will not have peace, you will be tortured by love until you efficaciously (successfully) sacrifice (forfeit) yourself (total personhood) to Jesus Christ and earn (receive) merit (worth) that will increase (intensify) in grace (life of the Trinity) and justice (truthfulness).

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47. Those of us who have been dealing with Catholics for years are used to this response. You don’t understand. We have different terminology etc. Who said I didn’t understand Bryan Cross. We understood each other just fine. And as I said you have never, and I repeat never owned your doctrine. so the question is, if you have to change what it means, and you won’t own it, why? The Reformers were former Catholic monks and Priests, all of them. And they understood it just as i or Robert or Eric, or Tim, or Wally etc. So your redefinition of terms won’t cut it. Lets go thru your definitions. Sacrifice ( surrender or forfeit) WRONG. The sacrifice of the mass is a REAL sacrifice according to Trent and Bryan Cross. It is efficacious for sins, and by doing it you merit an increase in justice and grace. Now if you don’t believe that then what are you doing in that church? Efficacious ( successful) Nonsense. Efficacious means when you earn a merit by doing mass you lesson your temporal punishment and earn increase grace and justice, because that un bloody sacrifice is efficacious . Your disposition before the sacrament is also determining the amount of grace and justice. Bryan told me yes we increase. Merit means earn. Grace is a means of exchange on the church’s Merit system. God excludes all works as being meritorious in Salvation. Go read 2 Timothy 1:9 and look long and hard at it., which you won’t. Increase ( intensify). This is getting ridiculous. Do you not realize you are accumulating enough sanctifying grace by your works to get to be inherently righteous. This violates the gospel . Romans 3:26 ” He is just and justifier of those who have faith in Jesus.” Ephesians 2:8. Justice( truthfulness) Debbie you are lost. Dikaiousinae justice or righteousness( perfect) is what is required to be right before God. God provides it thru the Law, but it must be kept perfectly. And Paul says no one can. Galatians 3:10. Or the NC it is thru the gospel which is only by faith. Romans 3″20 ” now apart form the law the “righteousness of God”has been revealed, the righteousness that comes by FAITH. Law and Gospel are opposed in justification. We cannot mix them. Galatians 5:1 We obey the law, but we are justified by the gospel, faith in Christ. Rome mixes both of these for final justification. Your final paragraph is sad. That is the Roman gospel. A false gospel. Busy like a bee earning enough merits to get in, wearing the scapular, I saw you wear it, trying your hardest to be good enough to get in. Romans 11:6 : if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, or grace is no longer grace.” Grace is no longer grace for you Debbie. I’ll pray for you. Maybe Tim can address your post, and help you.

    Reply

    1. You had better be busy like a bee if you want to get into Heaven. Jesus expects us to be about His Father’s business, and He calls them that are idle, “Wicked, lazy servants,” and will assign them a lot in the Lake of Fire. And seeing as the Eucharist is God’s gift of Himself to us, I can hardly see how anyone can call It nullifying grace. The Eucharist is nothing but grace. The Redeemer Himself gives His own Body and Blood to us for the nourishment and life of our souls.

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48. Tim,

    This is just crazy. I cannot believe this is going on in the RCC that I grew up in … but it certainly has changed. Wow.

    Your wrote:

    “So while this practice is contrary to the Scriptures, for we are not to bow before images (Exodus 20:4-5), and when we pray, we are not to use “vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking” (Matthew 6:7), it is nevertheless consistent with Roman Catholic teaching.

    Faustina was therefore canonized as a saint in 2000, and The Chaplet of the Divine Mercy is now recited regularly on the Roman Catholic channel, the Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN). As EWTN helpfully instructs us, the image that is venerated during the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy “also reminds us that salvation is not just by faith, but by works of charity also.” As seen in this broadcast, the entire Chaplet is conducted while worshiping the Eucharist and venerating the image that was revealed to Faustina. All the while, worshipers repeat the words of the prayer offering Jesus’ body, blood, soul and divinity to God for the sins “of the whole world” over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over….”

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49. Tim, you wrote:

    “To their shame, Keller and Warren can “hear” the thieves and robbers just fine, and do not bother to close the gate when they come to break in and destroy. They cannot hear God’s Word which says of the Chaplet and of the Eucharist, “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, … Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…” (Exodus 20:4-5), and that we must not “[give] heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:1). Duped by Roman Catholic idolatry, instead of exposing the errors of the Chaplet, they eagerly invite their sheep to join in the idolatry.”

    I never knew this was going on by Evangelicals. I knew the current Evangelical movement had adopted many of the Roman Catholic teachings, but would NEVER had guessed they were promoting image worship. I would never had guessed this in a million years since this is really basic violations of Scripture that are obvious. This is not complex doctrine for which there is room for disagreement and debate, this is simply demonic worship of images and visions, dreams, etc. To have these guys promoting false worship is just incredible to me. I just got another wake up call by Rome.

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    1. Walt,

       Quite right. This is how error creeps in right under our noses. A teacher at my last church ended a bible study lesson once by quoting Teresa of Avila, having no idea that Teresa had visions and encounters with “Jesus,” during which she was beaten to a pulp by “him” under the auspices of preparing her for heaven. The citation from Teresa was something about desiring heaven more than earth, but what she wrote was immediately after that encounter when “Jesus” had beaten her within an inch of her life:

       “Short as is the time it lasts, it leaves the limbs all disjointed and the pulse as feeble as if the soul were on the point of departure, which is indeed the case, for the natural heat fails, while that which is supernatural so burns the frame that were it increased ever so little God would satisfy the soul’s desire for death. Not that any pain is felt by the body at the moment, although, as I said, all the joints are dislocated so that for two or three days afterwards the suffering is too severe for the person to have even the strength to hold a pen…” (Teresa of Avila, Interior Castle, Ch. XI)

       As we shall see, this Teresa of Avila, and other counter-reformation mystics, are frequently cited and recommended to the sheep by evangelical ministers. Simply demonic. A terrible lack of discernment among those who should know better.

       Tim

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50. Tim , on Jason’s site they are discussing penal substitution. They deny Isaiah 53 that it pleased God to crush Him for our iniquities and He numbered Him among the transgressors. Christ doesn’t save them from anything, Galatians 3:10 says he was cursed hanging on a tree. Substitution

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51. Tim, As Horton says climbing Jacob’s ladder in merit, mysticism and speculation. It will find outer darkness.

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52. ” But you will be tortured by love until you efficaciously ( successfully) sacrifice ( forfeit) yourself (total personhood) to Christ to EARN (receive) merit (worth) that will increase( intensify) in grace ( life of the trinity) and justice ( truthfulness). Debbie this is my last attempt with you. You are in a church that preaches a false gospel. Let me show you why. I am not tortured by love, I was given mercy. Romans 5:1 says I have shalom ( peace) by faith ( instrumental cause) which received ( the gift, Christ) of righteousness ( fulfillment of the Law) that justified ( reconciled me to God). This is love, that He loved us first and gave his life a ransom for many. Ransom means to buy back out of slavery. Romans 5:19 says thru one man’d disobedience many were constituted ( imputed) sinners, and thru one man’s obedience many will be constituted ( imputed) righteous. And this is by faith. Look at your sentence Debbie. This is what it says, That I successfully sacrifice myself to Christ to EARN worth that will increase grace and justice. False gospel. Listen to Paul in Romans 9:30 ” What shall we say then ? That Gentiles who did not PURSUE righteousness, attained righteousness, the righteousness which is by faith, but Israel ( RC) pursued a law of righteousness, did NOT arrive at that Law, Why? because they did not pursue it by FAITH, , but as though it were by works. This is why the Catholic mass is sending men to hell. Because when you go to mass to forfeit yourself to earn increase, you are pursuing it by works as Israel, and you will not get there Paul says. In Romans 10:1 Paul says his heart breaks for them and prays for their salvation, as mine does for you and as I do for you. And here is the final nail in Romans 10:4: ” for christ is the END of the Law for RIGHTEOUSNESS to all who BELIEVE. Read Romans 10: 9-10. There is your morsel of Christ’s love that you want from me. The Roman mass has sent more men to hell, and thats exactly what Tim has hit on. That and the worship of Mary. Please consider my words. ” The righteous shall LIVE by faith. You said to Tim, it has to be more, but God says no, its a life of simple faith alone in Christ who is our righteousness. ” To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is COUNTED to him as righteousness. There will be so many prostitutes like me in heaven, and hell will be full of people who tried to be good. K

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53. Debbie, I read your post on the other site about penal substitution and your denial of it. This is to deny salvation by faith alone in Christ alone. You probably have never read Isaiah 53 where it says it pleased the Father to Crush His son for our iniquities. It says he bore our transgressions and was numbered among sinners. He took the full wrath of God upon himself. He creed out Father why have you forsaken me. God turned his back on his son. Galatians 3 says he was cursed and hung on a tree to free us from the penalty of the Law. I know you guys aren’t big on what scripture rely says but 2 Corinthians says 5:21 ” he made him who knew no sin to become sin, that we might become the righteousness of God. It does not say we become righteous inside but “the righteousness of god” in Him. Romans 8:3 says that Christ condemned sin in the flesh and fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Law “in us” not “by us” those who walk according to the Spirit, its passive construction. so Romans 5:1 says we have been justified by faith and Romans 8:1 says we are NOW not condemned. Condemned is a legal term a declaration and not a statement about our current state, of course which 1 John says if we say we have no sin in us we make God a liar 1 John 1:9. So we are currently aren’t inherently righteous but Romans 8:1 says we stand currently justified before God. And this is because Christ passive and active obedience, that is his living a perfect righteous life and dying on the cross, is imputed to us. John 1:12 simply says as many as receive Him, He has given the right to be called children of God. So you can see how simple faith justifies because it apprehends Christ our righteousness. Isaiah 53 tells us thru christ being crushed many are accounted righteous. Thats why the abominable work of the mass is the antithesis to the gospel. Here is what your church says. “To the one who works well to the end and trusts in God salvation is to be offered, not only as a gift, but as a REWARD to their merits and good works.” Compare that to 2 Timothy 1:9 ” He saved us and called u, not according to works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from eternity past.” As you can see Debbie this is the antithesis of Trent’s statement. The Roman catholic church is a false church with a false gospel. Calvin knew more about the church fathers than all the Roman Catholic theologians combined, and said if we weighed all the evidence of the church fathers, it would fall on our side. Don’t say I haven’t given you any morsels of love. I’m trying to give you another hand out of antichrist. K

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54. Debbie, and incidentally, don’t follow Jonathan and Jason, they will lead you to hell. Just another nugget of love. K

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    1. Kevin you sweet talking, honey tongued, shmoozer you. You say such nice things. You really do have away with words.

       You know, I can be a real firebrand when I get on a roll.
       One time, I saw two Mormon boys on the train. I decided to trap them. I struck up friendly chat with the lads, far from their families and loved ones back in America, who were happy to talk to a friendly American guy older than their dads. Of course, the conversation worked its way around to religion. I know more about mormonism that a lot of mormons so I went ballistic on their view of God. After showing off my rhetoric, I stood silent, preening myself, and waited for them to respond. They stared with mouths gaping. They were overwhelmed. The were speechless and unable to defend the faith they loved and had been taught by their parents against a giant like me. One kid suddenly turned his back to me and started sobbing, shoulders shaking. His buddy put one arm on his shoulder to comfort him and looked at me with a look that said, ” You mean old son of a bitch”. I was ashamed before God.
       That was years ago. Since then, I have never bullied or disrespected any Witness or Mormon again. They too are God’s as much as I am.
       You are still hurting people with your vicious tongue. And God is not pleased.

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55. This is what I stand by. period.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10154130676065584&set=vb.391483840583&type=2&theater

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    1. Debbie? What’s nice girl like you doing in a place like this?

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56. Debbie, in interacting you have always said to me, “give me something” I have given you everything. I am trusting in Christ alone for my salvation and am praying for you and your family to do the same. As Paul says not having a righteousness of my own, but a righteousness that comes fro God thru faith. My righteousness isn’t derived from His, it is His righteousness. But you Debbie have given me nothing. You have hidden. Your last post says this is where I stand. I have asked you 35 times if you need to “do” “the sacraments of the new law to be saved”, and you have never answered? Still waiting. You try to soft pedal Roman doctrine to make it sound more Protestant. To your credit you have told me once that you believe every word of RC doctrine. And I already knew that. It took you so long to confirm that. If you thought RC doctrine was so right, why hide it. I think you know deep in your heart you are in a false church. And if you are a true believer, you cannot stay in that communion. You said to me that I was upset because you and Bill didn’t buckle. No Debbie. I just wanted you to know the truth and it will set you free. In the end, you don’t owe me an answer, you owe yourself the truth. Another nugget, K

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    1. Jesus said, “Unless you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood, you have no life within you.” Now there are some who die in baptismal grace without ever getting a chance to receive the Eucharist, but most assuredly, I tell you, no one who refuses to be baptized or to partake of the Eucharist will be saved, for such do NOT believe in Jesus, even if they profess that He died for their redemption and rose from the dead, for if they believed in Him as Lord, they would obey Him. Indeed, their condemnation is all the greater, for they knew the Master’s will, but they ignored it. To these, Jesus will say, “Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you!”

       Concerning the other five Sacraments, most people will receive only three or four of them, and even these are not strictly necessary for salvation. Confession is necessary for salvation only for those who have lost their initial state of grace from baptism by mortal sin (which, granted, is most Christians). The Anointing of the Sick grants strength to the soul and even healing to the body when in danger of death, but as far as necessity goes, you only need it for salvation if you have committed a mortal sin that you have not confessed and are physically unable to confess due to your illness or injury, or for want of a priest who can understand your words. Holy Orders is necessary for the salvation of the world, but not for the recipient, for without Holy Orders, there is no Eucharist, there is no Confession, there is no Confirmation, and there is no Anointing of the Sick. Confirmation seals the believer with the Holy Spirit, and as such, is a precondition to receiving Holy Orders or otherwise functioning as a full member of the Church, but one will not lose Heaven on account of dying without it. Matrimony is necessary for the propagation of the human race, for the marriage bed alone preserves the state of grace while engaging in the act which begets offspring, and thus without Matrimony, there would be no way of saving both this generation and the next, but the one who dies a virgin does well, too.

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       1. Andrew, Romans 10:9 ” that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.” for with the heart a person believes RESULTING in righteousness, and with mouth he confesses, RESULTING in salvation.” You may want to reconsider your theology. There are only 4 verses in the all the Epistles on the Lord’s supper. J.C, Ryle a great theologian once said beware of a church that makes everything out of the sacraments. Faith has always been the entry point into this holistic salvation. In fact 1 John 4 says ” by this we have overcome the world, our faith” Paul says ” the righteous shall live by faith” Faith covers the whole of salvation. A sacrament is simply a sign and seal of God’s free grace, . To eat Christ’s flesh is to believe. We are saved by faith Eph. 2:8 Rom. 4;5, 10:9-10 and we are justified by faith 5:1 and by his blood 5:10. Aorist past tense. Salvation is not on the installment plan, it is accomplished. Christ’s one time offering Hebrews 10:14 says perfected all those who believe. There are no more sacrifices for sins. The work of the mass, penance , baptism, Mary, pilgrimages etc. does not save a man, faith does. Its not ambiguous. In fact the writer of Hebrews calls the need for a physical altar, a physical sacrifice, and a physical Priesthood shrinking back in one’s faith. Christ’s altar, sacrifice and Priesthood are in heaven. The veil has been ripped away and we go directly into the throne room with spiritual praises and sacrifices. Christ did not remove all barriers between man and God to put sacraments ex opere operato between them. Faith alone in Christ alone saves. Andrew revelations 18:4 says ” a voice from heaven says ” My people come out from her” Romans 4:5 says God justifies the ungodly, apart from works, by faith, crediting righteousness to us. John 5:24 Jesus says Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word, and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed (past tense) out of death to life.” Can it be any clearer Andrew. Repent of the awful work of the mass and believe this day and be saved.

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57. Jim, You are entitle to your view, but there can be nothing more unloving than sitting back an allowing someone to perish in a false system. My wife and I have lost all our Catholic friends and we are praising God because we lost them by telling them our heart on the truth about the gospel and their church. Tim and Walt can tell you better than me, it took God opening their eyes for them to come out of that system. Hillary was a strong influence on Augustine. And it was his writing in the late 4th century that sparked a resurgence on Paul’s epistles and the understanding of justification by faith alone. This man studied with the man who studied with John, the very apostle that laid his head on Christ’s shoulder. And it was this great Father that went to the Gospels to prove it. In the parable about the workers in the vineyard. He observed that the one’s who began got the same wage as the one’s who came late. All this to say merit has no place in God’s justification, only grace by faith alone. And it was this man who influenced Augustine who fought Pelagious. St Hilary ” the publicans and the prostitutes will be the first into heaven because of JBFA. Amen!

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    1. Kevin, your buddy Eric and James are sharing a link from some Lutheran Liturgy site that has an article from Martin Chemnitz. He believed in MERIT. Just saw 5 minutes ago.

       Let me cast a pearl before you from St. Theresa of Avila; ” If you see a baby playing with a sharp knife, do not startle him or try to grab the knife away. He may cut himself trying to keep the knife.
       Instead offer the baby a sweet. He will drop the knife to take the sweet. Then you can get the knife safely away.”

       If you want a Mormon to turn from Mormonism, don’t jerk it away. He will hold on to it even tighter. His religion, right or wrong, just might be all he has. You had better not take it away from him unless you have something better. And from what you demonstrate, you don’t.

       Kevin bro, I prefer Mormons to you. You are are mean old man who uses religion to ridicule others. You proved this by, every time you scored a snotty shot at a Catholic on Jason’s blog, you ran to one of your hyena bros for a hi-five as if it was a game.

       A mormon with his spirit brother of lucifer type Jesus will beat you into the kingdom.

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58. “If you thought RC doctrine was so right, why hide it. I think you know deep in your heart you are in a false church. And if you are a true believer, you cannot stay in that communion.”

    For the last time – and this is it until you call me on the phone and apologize and tell me you are converting to Catholicism – Listen closely even though I know you will NEVER understand this:
    I haven’t responded to what you say the Catholic Church believes because you DON’T understand what you are saying. And to say I believe what YOU are saying and what YOU understand to be correct is untrue. You don’t know what you are saying just as those that crucified Christ did not know what they were doing, just as St. Paul had no idea what he was doing when he put St. Stephen to death ….

    I absolutely believe EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches, and I absolutely don’t believe EVERYTHING you think the Catholic Church teaches AND TO PUT IT MORE BLUNTLY, I am trying to keep you from damning yourself to hell with your own words, so that our Lord will have Mercy on you. I use this blanket statement because you can’t nit pick and misunderstand even worse than you already do and commit sacrilege. I didn’t answer to protect you. The same way I tried to protect your wife from you (God have mercy on my soul).

    Kevin, I will stand before my Creator and bear witness that I forgive you BECAUSE you didn’t know what you were doing. IF YOU KNEW what you were doing and did it anyway, I’m praying for the grace to still bear witness that you should be forgiven. That is how serious your offenses against me and my best friend have been.

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59. No apologies for the truth. So don’t come on here and engage me again. I saved Leni from you and she knows it.

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    1. kevin, do you have any friends?

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60. Jim, I was the most popular guy in my high school and have a magnetic personality, and women tell me I’m good looking, especially my wife. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Its about the gospel truth Jim, thats all. I’m sure if you and i sat down for a cool one we would have great time. i could make you a little pasta with tuna ( big with my family in northern Italy.) But I’m going to tell you your in a false religion. Would your still drink with me?

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    1. I bet I am better looking. Women have never said so, including my wife. But I know I am. I like to stand in front of the mirror with my shirt off and suck in my apron gut and flex. I also like to snarl and do karate poses. My skin is pasty white with faded tattoos, coke bottle glasses, receding hair line. I think I am what they call a “silver fox” of a man.
       But lets not fight over that. We can both be pretty girls.
       Lets fight over doctrine instead. Only one of us can win there.

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       1. Kevin, I will drink with any man!

          Thanks for the invite. I’ll bring a vinho tinto and you do the pasta. It’s a date. And we can compare Italian to Portuguese olive oil.
          I would actually like that. As for being a stud, long ago I asked you if your hatred for the Church stemmed from some Catholic girl dumping you and becoming a nun. You quipped back that you were Italian and Italians don’t get dumped. My wife loved it. It’s the only sensible thing you have ever said.

          But let’s not start being buddies yet, It gets in the way of the attack.

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61. Tim, there is a message on Called to communion by Dr Ligon Duncan called ” Did the fathers know the gospel” Great message. Have you heard it? And where are you going next with your message? Hope you and your family are well. Kevin

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    1. Kevin,
       I have not heard that message from Ligon Duncan, but it sounds interesting.

       I plan to write about the allegation of “anti-incarnationalism” so often leveled at Protestants, as well as the church in the wilderness (Revelation 12:6), and some other matters related to Evangelicals adopting Roman Catholic practices and teachings, and on Romans 4 at some point. Possibly on the 10 horns of Daniel 7, and Revelation 12, 13 and 17 at some point, too.

       Thanks for checking in,

       Tim

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62. Jim, Mikel on the other site had a freudian slip and called you Tim. Hmmmmm? Seems like an old friend of you and me.

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63. Tim, Cant wait. This blog has been great for exposing the lie that is Roman Catholicism. And I can only know you will” impute justice” to Romans 4. K I hope you will consider the sacrifice of the mass at some point. They say 70 % of Catholics have no idea about transubstantiation and that it is a real sacrifice according to their own doctrine. There are RC’s who know nothing of their doctrine and may be trusting in Christ alone for their salvation. We can only pray for those who do know well their doctrines and give hearty approval. God have mercy on their souls.

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64. For all Catholic lurkers, Can I suggest a Video by a Lutheran Pastor Jonathan Fisk on a site called Triablogue called “Responding to a Lutheran considering converting to Rome” This Pastor does an incredible job of drawing the differences and explaining Roman Catholicism. Its about a 15 minute video. He’s very fast and brilliant i his arguments. A must see. God bless.

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    1. Lurkers, Yes indeed. I would encourage Protestants to visit Pastor Fisk’s site to see about the Eucharist and the Real Presence. ( Kevin calls this worshiping the death wafer. I wonder why he is sending people to site run a by death wafer worshiper???)
       P.S. Kevin calls worshiping the Host bread worship/idolatry. If this is true for Catholics, it is more true for Lutherans who hold that the Host is both Christ AND bread.

       Out of one side of his loud mouth Kevin shrieks idolatry. Out of the other side of that blasphemous mouth, he tells you to visit that site. Kevin is confuesed.

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65. Jim, CK and Mikel have never engage me on Jason’s site and they have given me these personal shots. Its unusual to get something out of such anger from someone you have never spoken with on the blog. You think its bearing false witness to come on a site and pretend to be someone else? I think its lying and sin. What think you?

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    1. I think they were clear that they never engaged you as the could see it was hopeless. One of them said they were afraid of getting bit. You are that vicious. I like a good food fight. Sensible people don’t.

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66. Tim, I wanted to juxtapose Canon 24 for the council of Trent against Galatians 3:1-3, Galatians 5:1-3 so we never forget what false gospel we are fighting, and what the stakes are. Canon 24 Trent” If anyone saith, that the justice received is no preserved and increased before God thru works; but that said works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase thereof, let him be anathema.” Galatians 3:1-3″ You foolish Galatians , who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the one thing I want to find out from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing with faith. Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit are you now being perfected by the flesh? Galatians 5:1-3 “It was for freedom that Christ has set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject to a yoke of slavery. Behold, I Paul tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again every man who receives circumcision , that he is under obligation to keep the whole law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.” For all the Roman Catholic lurkers, I appeal to you to look at the statement of your council ( Trent) and compare it with the Scripture I provided. The decision you make will mean your soul. RC lurkers, justification before God does not come thru good works, penance, the mass, Mary, pilgrimages, merit, etc. , it comes thru faith in Christ alone. Only this can give you true peace. Romans 5:1, 8:1. Listen to my favorite verse 2 Timothy 1:9:” who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity. Catholic lurkers I appeal to you today, repent of working your way to heaven, believe the gospel, trust in Christ alone and be saved. Join this site and learn form Tim the truth. John 5:24 ” Jesus said ” Truly , Truly I say to you, he who hears My word , and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

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67. Jim, the plain fact is the truth offends. MacArthur says if the truth offends, let it, they have offended the truth enough in their time. The fact that you or any other Catholic does not like to hear that the work and sacrifice of the mass is abominable and will send men to hell means nothing to me. Because it is a total offense to God and his finished atoning work in the one sacrifice of his son for our sins. I have read all the history on it, including Chemnitz whose treatment of the church history on it is a must read, it never was a sacrifice propitious for sins. It was a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving and a remembrance. It was given to assure and nourish our faith. Jesus gave them the bread to be eaten, not kept and adored, marched around in the streets. Jesus specifically said that we are to worship him in Spirit and truth. He gives himself to us in faith, the spirit and the word. Mathew 26:11″ For you always have the poor with you, but you don’t always have me.” See jim he isn’t substantially in the bread. He is in heaven. He left us with the Spirit. Every time a Catholic goes to mass to earn an increase in justification and salvation he sends himself to hell. ” not of yourselves” “not of works”. In Roman Catholicism you save yourself because you are only saved by faith as it is activated by your love, your being, your internal righteousness, and you got to get their on your own, with the help of the special juju, but if you don’t get there you don’t get there. Thats not “the good news” thats bad news. Salvation is simply receiving and resting in Christ who is our righteousness. And as we come in union with Him thru the Spirit rewording us, we serve our neighbor in obedience to God, not as a way of earning our salvation, but out of the obedience of Faith. All of salvation never leaves the sphere of faith. Paul sums it up, “the righteous shall live by faith.

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    1. Kevin,
       Indeed, Christ’s one physical Body is in heaven. His Body is not multiplied millions of times on our altars and in our tabernacles.
       But you yourself used the word ‘substantially”.
       That does not mean what we normally mean with that word today. It means by way of substance.
       Kevin, you have never directly seen or touched the substance of an apple. You have seen and touched its accidents of redness or greenness and felt its smoothness.
       Another accident is spacial presence. We can move an apple to different places and it stays the apple.
       Jesus does not leave heaven and come down to our altars ( John O’Brian’s poetic hyperbole ). Instead, we find ourselves in heaven.
       After feeding the 5,000 with the loaves and fishes, the Apostles gathered up baskets full of the same handful of fish.

       Speaking of fish, it’s Friday lunch time here so I am gonna have salmon pasta I tried to do myself. I am holding you too your word, should I ever get to Arizona, to the pasta dish you promised out of your own free will. Nobody forced you so you are not going to weasel out. All Italians, men and women, are cooking fools and I aim to cash in on your rash offer.

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    2. You are a blasphemer. It is not we who are offended, but rather Christ, whom you call a liar and a demon.

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68. Jim , let me show you the mind of a Catholic. I will translate the subtlety in these statements made from Debbie to Tim. ” I would expect so much more” IOW a Catholic is taught faith is just a preparatory step and is activated by your love, your being, your doing, where scripture teaches us it is ( fiducia) a life of trust in Christ alone which produces the fruits of good works. She continues” A sacrifice is an offering” Jesus sacrifice is the offering that is perfect, once, substitutionary, finished, which Hebrews tells us put sin away It forgives all sin past present and future. In fact Hebrews 10:14 said it perfected us and 10:18 says there are no more sacrifices for sins. Thats why the mass is an abomination. Lets continue, she said ” those who receive communion “offer”( watch closely) our gift of self to God renews his gift to us hence a merger” This is absurd. Salvation isn’t a merger. We don’t offer ourselves for our sins, he offered himself as a sacrifice once, and it accomplished our justification, Romans 4:25. We don’t cooperate with grace to merit our salvation, it is a free gift given thru simple faith. The notion of doing the mass ex opere operato to earn a merit and increase in grace, justice, salvation is an affront to the nature of free salvation given as a gift permanently at the moment of faith, and the notion of a merger or cooperating our way to heaven is a complete affront to the nature of God’s election, and the “free gift of righteousness.” I f you got to have a merger and cooperate, news, it ain’t a gift, its a reward for your offering yourself. This is what I mean about a false gospel. You have to read and listen carefully.

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    1. Kevin, Yes, in a very real sense, sin was taken away for all men on Calvary’s One Sacrifice. But you would agree that all men are born sinners and stay that way until the merits of the cross are applied. ( You would say by regeneration or Faith Alone ). I would say by Baptism or an act of perfect Charity.

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69. Jim, God is not crediting something intrinsic to us or properly earned by us or reflected in us to be our righteousness, but God counts us as righteous even though we are ungodly by crediting faith as righteousness. By virtue of all His obedience Christ was vindicated and his people are saved. Since Abraham had righteousness counted to him, he cannot have done works, but must have been the recipient of grace. In Numbers 18:27-30 Levites tithe is reckoned as the corn of the threshing floor and as the fulness of the winepress. Abraham simply believed God and his gracious promise. Jim, listen to to Galatians 3: 25-27 ” But now faith is come you are no longer under the tudor(law). For you are all sons of god thru faith in Christ Jesus. For all you who were baptized in to Christ( by faith) have CLOTHED yourselves with Christ. Jim thats why we stand justified before him. And to make our acceptance before God as a result of doing the mass, penance and other sacraments, is an abomination to God. Hope this helps.

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    1. Kevin,
       Abraham most assuredly cooperated with grace. He is justified in Gen. 12, 15 and 22. ( Not just 15 ). In 12, by Faith, he left…according to Hebrews.

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70. Jim indulge me one more B.B. Warfield ” The actual distribution of the Grace of God thru the church and the sacraments lies outside the government of His gracious will. Those who are saved by obtaining the sacraments , and those who are last by missing the sacraments, are saved or lost therefore, not by divine appointment, but by the natural working of secondary causes to which the distribution of the sacraments has been committed, that is, on the condition of their receiving grace thru the sacraments distributed under the government of second causes, is supplanted by a consequent and absolute will of salvation, therefore, only in the case of those who He foresees, will under the government of second causes, actually receive the sacraments and the grace conveyed by them.” Grace is a gift and not a reward. If grace was given in response to an action ability, it would be a reward and not a gift.

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71. Kevin,
    You guys say we are saved directly by God and we say God uses secondary causes. Not because He has to but because He wills to shared His glory with us. We are active participants and not mere spectators.
    Kevin, do not think you are busting me or embarrassing me on this. I agree with you 100%. I do not deny what you are accusing us of. I might use less inflammatory words, but basically, you got us figured out.

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72. Jim, we are members of the church, and we receive word and sacrament. We are saved by faith alone. The Sacraments are signs seal and confirmation of God’s grace and we receive them wit faith, thru the Spirit. We don’t do them to accrue increases of grace. In the Catholic church its up to you to get there and if you don’t get there, well you don’t get there. Ya you got the special juju to help you, but your salvation depends on you.

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    1. Kevin, we do indeed store up treasure in heaven that will not rust and the moth not eat.
       Paul talks about degrees of glory in heaven, sun, moon and stars.

       Speaking of eat, I would love to turn your nasty Calvinist self on to a Portuguese chourico. But it can’t go through customs as it is a meat product. You just add a tiny bit to pasta, even fish, and it is so great. You could add it to that pasta dish you will make me.
       And adult beverages. You will ply me adult beverages too, right? That is part of the deal?
       We are still enemies. It’s just that I am not so proud as to refuse to bread bread with any man, no matter how humble his estate or heretical error, who will make me a pasta dish served with beverages. Lots of beverages.
       Over the grappa and tirmisu you will serve me I will want to hear how you could travel in Italy amid all that art and holiness and not convert.

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73. Jim, converting to Roman Catholicism is not an option. I won’t forfeit my soul turning to a system of works all mixed in. I know myself and I am a sinner and am trusting in Christ alone for getting me there. So all that beautiful art won’t make a difference, although it is beautiful. Chourico I’ll take it, and I can send you some Mexican chourico. When I get to Europe, like you, I would have no problem eating with a Mary worshiping, saint praying, scapular wearing, indulgence buying RC. If the wine is good, no problem. Jim, have you ever considered your churches selling masses and indulgences and what that means? K

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74. Kevin
    The Church never actually “sold” Masses and indulgences Kevin. They gave indulgences for an alms, Masses for stipend. Hank Hanegraaf gives out his book as a gift for an offering. Because some folks don’t get, the Church no long does so.

    Matt Slick says Tobit says sins are forgiven for money. Ha! Venial sin/temporal punishment only is wiped out by almsgiving and other good works.

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75. Tim, I hope at some point you can do a piece on the finished atonement and sacrifice of Christ and what it accomplished. The reason I mention this is there is a major distinction between our faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross that freed us from the penally of sin and the law and brought us peace past tense, and the Roman Catholic view of the continuing, unfinished incarnation in which they participate by their works and sacrifices in the mass to “efficaciously (successfully) earn (receive) merit (worth) that will increase( intensify) grace and justice.” The Roman Catholic who wrote the last quote says that one won’t have peace, and will be tortured by love until we do this. This Catholic said on another site ” Jesus christ paid the price with his life and saved us from not haying freedom. We are now free to choose the way of God. Human freedom attains its perfection when directed toward God, to move into action towards trinitarian territory.” Tim, for Christians the atonement was is about redemption, reconciliation, expiation, performed by the Lord of Glory, once for all, he purged our sins and He sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. The atonement was an historic act accomplished once and for all, without any participation or contribute on our part. A work was perfected which antedates any and every recognition or response on the part of those who are its beneficiaries. It was performed independent of us, and the subjective effects that accrue from it presuppose its accomplishment. T he subjective effects exerted in our understanding and will can follow only as we recognize by faith the meaning of the objective fact. Against the Romish doctrine of the sacrifice of the mass and its blasphemy, the atonement is a completed work, never repeated and unrepeatable. We acknowledge the the high priestly work of Christ on our behalf as he embodies in himself the efficacy that accrued from his sacrifice on earth. But to say we have part in that which constituted the vicarious sacrifice of Christ s entirely different matter. It is indefensible and perverse to place upon the terms vicarious sacrifice of Christ to a false religion that will rob it of the unique and distinctive character which scripture applies to it. We are to follow in his footsteps, but we are never to extend His work of propitiation, expiation and reconciliation. In the end in Rome you have to save yourself, and if you get there, you get there, and if you don’t, you don’t. But we have a savior who accomplished our salvation in one awesome act, justified us by his blood, freed us from the penalty of sin and offers us lasting peace by simple faith. This is the Good News.

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76. Kelvin,
    You said a mouthful. Incoherent and addressing several points at once as is your jumbled style.
    But a theme that runs through your babble is your diatribe against human freedom or participation.

    Christ died for all. God wants all saved. All aren’t saved. If this doesn’t say “HUMAN FREEDOM” then, once again, why didn’t God just create us already in heaven and hell?

    (Please don’t mutter something about God’s glory like you did the last time I stuck this question to you. Just admit that you can’t. )

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77. Kelvinists, Tim, Bob and Kevin,

    Look what I found;
    “Dr. Samuel M. Zwemer, who in a very real sense can be referred to as “apostle to the Mohammedan World,” calls attention to the strange parallel between the Reformation in Europe under Calvin and that in Arabia under Mohammed. Says he: “Islam is indeed in many respects the Calvinism of the Orient. It, too, was a call to acknowledge the sovereignty of God’s will… It is this vital theistic principle that explains the victory of Islam over the weak divided and idolatrous Christendom of the Orient” (Boettner, The Doctrine of Predestination, p. 318-319).

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78. Jim, the point is the atonement is a finished act completed by Christ, you don’t contribute in a propitiatory way. He paid the price, your didn’t. You can accept it by faith. The atonement is accomplished and applied by faith, not finished by you. The atonement is a finished act and the church witnesses to that. Let hi off Jimmy!

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79. Kelvin,

    “the point is the atonement is a finished act completed by Christ, ”

    Yes, it is indeed. All men are redeemed and justified and glorified on Calvary.

    But Kelvin, they all don’t pass the Great Assize.

    Lucy! You got some ‘splainin’ to do!

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80. Jim, her is what Debbie told Tim in one post, the typical RC apostasy, ” The incarnation of the only begotten son made your salvation possible” Murray said “Did Christ come to make salvation of all men possible, to remove obstacles that that stood in the way of salvation, and merely make provision for salvation? Or did he come to save his people? Did He come to put all men in a salvable state? Or did He come to secure salvation of all those who are ordained to eternal life? Did He come to make men redeemable? or did He come effectually to redeem? The doctrine of the atonement must be radically revised if, as atonement, it applies to those who finally perish as well as those who are heirs to eternal life. In that event we should have to dilute the grand categories in terms of which the scripture defines atonement and deprive them of their most precious import and glory. This we cannot do>The saving efficacy of expiation, propitiation, reconciliation, and redemption is to deeply embedded in these concepts, and we dare not eliminate this efficacy. We do well to ponder the words of our Lord ” I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me , that everything which he hath given to me I should lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day” Security inheres in Christ’s redemptive accomplishment.” What is offered to men in the Gospel is not the possibility of salvation, not simply the opportunity of salvation, what is offered is salvation. Rev 5:9 Christ redeemed us to God by his blood. Heb. 9:12 ” He obtained eternal redemption. ” He gave himself for us in order that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works.” It in no less than effectual accomplishment which secures the salvation of those who are its objects. christ did not come to put men in a redeemable position but to redeem himself a people. Christ did not come to make God reconcilable , He reconciled us to God by His own blood. So when a Catholic says that His incarnation made salvation possible they are on the road of a wrong gospel which includes one’s works in the final evaluation of justification. Eating increases of justification thru doing the Eucharist is the antithesis of simple faith alone in christ alone which secures salvation once and for all. And the sacrament then becomes a remembrance a commemoration, an opportunity of thanksgiving and spiritual sacrifice for the freight of a salvation already secured, and offered by faith. Christ truly feeds our faith thru his Spirit, his word, and faith. We worship his flesh thru the Spirit of God and thank him for free grace that has already been secured and supplied. Jim, I say to you what I have said to Debbie, ” My people, come out from her.”

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    1. You find it absurd that Jesus died for the damned as well as the saints, but the Scriptures say He is “the Savior of all men, especially those who believe.” He died for all, and so all were redeemed, but not all will be saved. If this requires a radical change in your doctrine, it is only because your doctrine is perverse.

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81. Faustina is a saint, and it was Jesus Christ Himself who appeared to her. I’m sorry that doesn’t fit your preconceived notions of who Jesus is, but we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Away with you, perfidel! You attribute to Satan what is the work of God!

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    1. Reading the posts by “Debbie” is really sad….. For example:

       “Being a Christian means renouncing ourselves, taking up the cross and carrying it with Jesus. There is no other way.”

       I know that Catholics exalt man in every way…but it is stunning when they do it and cannot see it. “carrying it with Jesus” – God have mercy on this ignorance- we DO NOTHING alongside the creator of all things …HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is He! We have no part in our salvation..it is all of God and obedience comes naturally with the regenerate heart- even the obedience that glorifies God is not of us- all of the Holy Spirit.
       We are told to “take up our cross” and count the costs of following Him, but she terribly perverted this teaching.
       I’m just so grieved at how the Lord is horribly blasphemed even in these blog posts……sorely grieved. Get in the Word, Debbie.

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82. Pingback: “Getting Sanctification Done” | Out of His Mouth

83. I love my own simple evangelical church no Popes no Cardinals no Mary none of the absolute nonsense that has help people captive for 1700 years and even the 500 years of Reformation I will preach from Sunday 13th August on Faith Alone, Christ Alone, Bible Alone, Holy Spirit Alone and all Glory to God Alone, without using the word Sola, my 25,000 people who love God, who are born again by accepting Christ as Lord and savior and whose lives have been changed because they love God will continue to rejoice again on Sunday, no tradition, to claptrap, no robes and smoke but Christ alone – all these pages of arguments based on nothing, my pain is that many of these contributors will hear the most terrifying words in the English language “depart from me you cursed I never knew you” no Pope, priest or pastor can rescue them – it’s in the Bible

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84. Bruce, so you have a church of 25k and you are the true reformer and everybody that ” all these pages of arguments here are based on nothing”, are not believers and will hear words of terrifying judgement? And if I understood you correctly you teach the solas to your congregation but don’t use the word sola? Are you aware that it was through the reformation the focus was put back on scripture and the gospel? I’m trying to figure out why a pastor of a church would come on a Christian site and tell the people here they are going to hell? Maybe this week the topic of your sermon is judging another?

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