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Two weeks ago, in Do Not Weep for Nicomedia, we walked through the Seven Seals of Revelation (chapters 6 to 8), noting that the saints of God were marked between the Sixth and Seventh—that is, between the destruction of Nicomedia by an earthquake and the burning of Nicomedia with fire in 358 A.D. By way of review, the Seven Seals are as follows:
Seal 1: Rise of the Sassanid Empire (226 A.D.)
Seal 2: The Crisis of the Third Century (235 A.D.)
Seal 3: Diocletian’s Edict on Maximum Prices (301 A.D.)
Seal 4: The Diocletianic Persecution (303 A.D.)
Seal 5: The “pretended relaxation” (311 A.D.)
Seal 6: The earthquake of Nicomedia (358 A.D.)
Seal 7: The burning of Nicomedia (shortly after the earthquake)
The Seals are worked out in much more detail in our post two weeks ago, and we invite our readers to revisit the details there.
At the breaking of the Seventh Seal, before the “fire of the altar” is cast to earth (Revelation 8:5), seven angels are given seven trumpets (Revelation 8:2). The angels began to sound their trumpets within a year of the breaking of the Seventh Seal. This week we cover the first Four.
First Trumpet: Eden Burning (359 A.D.)
“The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.” (Revelation 8:7)
Our attention is immediately drawn to the Garden of Eden, where grass and trees are given for food:
“And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.” (Genesis 1:11)
“And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.” (Genesis 2:9)
Of the three types of trees listed, two are not to be eaten: the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. We note therefore that in the earliest description of Eden, all grass (literally: young, green herbage) and one third of the trees, are given for food. Thus, the First Trumpet, by drawing on the creation narrative—all grass and a third of the trees—draws us back to a precise geographic location: the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers, from which the Garden of Eden was watered (Genesis 2:10-14).
In an act of desperation, leading up to the Siege of Amida in 359 A.D., the Roman army had to evacuate and then burn its own territories between the Tigris and the Euphrates, in order to prevent the Sassanids from foraging for food. Roman Historian Ammianus Marcellinus provides the details:
“[The Romans directed] to burn all the standing crops, that the enemy might get no supplies from the land. And when these orders had been executed, as they were without delay, and when the fire was kindled, the violence of the raging element so completely destroyed all the corn, which was just beginning to swell and turn yellow, and all the young herbage, that from the Euphrates to the Tigris nothing green was to be seen.” (Ammianus Marcellinus, Roman History, Book XVIII, ch. 7, 3-4)
The siege did not end well, and by 363 A.D., Emperor Julian had been killed on the eastern front, and his successor had to surrender five Roman Provinces under terms of peace with the Sassanids. The Roman Empire, after centuries of expansion, had begun to shrink.
We will return later to Eden, and therefore to the land between the Tigris and the Euphrates, with the sounding of the Fifth Trumpet—the only other Trumpet that mentions trees and grass.
Second Trumpet: The Egyptian Tsunami (365 A.D.)
“And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.” (Revelation 8:8-9)
On July 21, 365 A.D., an 8.5+ magnitude earthquake hit Crete, resulting in a deadly tsunami in Alexandria, Egypt. Due to the location of the epicenter, most of the Mediterranean Sea basin, except Egypt, was shielded from the effects. Thus, only one third of the Mediterranean Sea was affected, devastating “the southern and eastern coasts of the Mediterranean, particularly Libya, Alexandria and the Nile Delta” (Wikipedia, 365 Crete Earthquake). Because of the characteristic receding wave, many people had walked out onto the seabed to explore, only to be surprised by the returning water. Thus, “the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life (literally, ‘souls’),” refers to the people who were literally “in the sea” and were killed by the wave. The wave carried many ships on it as well, and those ships were destroyed. Roman Historian Ammianus Marcellinus provides the details:
“For a little before sunrise there was a terrible earthquake, preceded by incessant and furious lightning. The sea was driven backwards, so as to recede from the land, and the very depths were uncovered, so that many marine animals were left sticking in the mud. And the depths of its valleys and the recesses of the hills, which from the very first origin of all things had been lying beneath the boundless waters, now beheld the beams of the sun. Many ships were stranded on the dry shore, while people straggling about the shoal water picked up fishes and things of that kind in their hands. In another quarter the waves, as if raging against the violence with which they had been driven back, rose, and swelling over the boiling shallows, beat upon the islands and the extended coasts of the mainland, levelling cities and houses wherever they encountered them. All the elements were in furious discord, and the whole face of the world seemed turned upside down, revealing the most extraordinary sights. For the vast waves subsided when it was least expected, and thus drowned many thousand men. Even ships were swallowed up in the furious currents of the returning tide, and were seen to sink when the fury of the sea was exhausted ; and the bodies of those who perished by shipwreck floated about on their backs or faces. Other vessels of great size were driven on shore by the violence of the wind, and cast upon the housetops, as happened at Alexandria ; and some were even driven two miles inland, of which we ourselves saw one in Laconia, near the town of Mothone, which was lying and rotting where it had been driven.” (Ammianus Marcellinus, Roman History, Book XXVI, ch. X, 16-19)
Third Trumpet: Translation of the Latin Vulgate (382 – 404 A.D.)
“And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.” (Revelation 8:10-11)
We are reminded in Proverbs 5:4 that the bitterness of wormwood is “sharp as a twoedged sword,” the same language used to describe the Scripture (Hebrews 4:12). God’s word is called a “lamp” in Psalm 119:105, and the “great star” in these verses is burning “as it were a lamp.” In Ezekiel 20:24-25, the Lord punishes Israel for its idolatry by giving them “statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.” In Jeremiah 2:11-13, the Lord asks, “Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? … they have forsaken Me the fountain of living waters.” This describes the condition in Rome at the latter part of the fourth century, as we noted in The Rise of Roman Catholicism, last week.
Wormwood therefore refers to the corruption of the Word of God, a corruption by which God gives men “statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live,” which is why many men died from it. The words describing this Trumpet point us to Jeremiah 23, where the Lord says He will give the people wormwood and make them drink the water of gall” (bitterness) because of their errors. In Jeremiah 23:15, because of the profanity of the prophets, the Lord says “Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.” In particular, we note that the prophets “speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD” (Jeremiah 23:16). They have forsaken the Word of God (vv. 18-22), “prophesy lies in My name” (v. 25), report their dreams as the Word of God but are deceived from their own hearts (vv. 25-26), and “cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour” (v. 27). At verses 28-30, Jeremiah distinguishes between the dreamers and those who speak God’s word faithfully, and then accuses the dreamers of stealing His words from their neighbors:
“The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. … Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.”
In 382 A.D., Jerome was commissioned by Pope Damasus I to translate the Bible into what would later be called the Latin Vulgate. Jerome was a false prophet and a dreamer of dreams. One dream in particular—in which he claimed he was scourged and tortured before the judgment seat of Christ until his “shoulders were black and blue” to pay for his sins—is repeated over (The Apology of Rufinus, Book II, ch. 6) and over (Apology against Rufinus, Book I, ch. 30) and over again (Letter XXII, To Eustochium, ch. 30).
Jerome also was guilty of “steal[ing] My words every one from his neighbour.” Jerome allegedly translated the Scriptures from the original Hebrew, but there is evidence that “he hardly knew that language. …in those passages whose sources are known Jerome simply transferred the reports of Origen or Eusebius respectively to himself.” (Hieronymus, in: Theologische Realenzyklopädie, Vol. 15, Walter de Gruyter, Berlin – New York 1986, p. 304-315). As the Jewish Encyclopedia notes, “His knowledge [of Hebrew] was really very defective. Although he pretends to have complete command of Hebrew and proudly calls himself a ‘trilinguis’ … he did not… attain to the proficiency of his simple Jewish teachers.”
Jerome also added to God’s Word on a whim. For example, in Revelation 9:11, the name of the destroying angel is rendered in both Greek and Hebrew, but Jerome added yet a third rendering in Latin. He also omitted Acts 23:25 altogether. As we noted here, the Latin Vulgate gave rise to the perception that it is Mary, not Jesus, who crushes the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. As we have also noted, the Latin Vulgate’s rendering of Psalms 98:5, “adore his footstool, for it is holy,” confused Augustine, whose confusion was then used by Pope Paul VI to justify Eucharistic Adoration as if had always been the practice of the Christian Church (Mysterium Fidei, 53)
Perhaps the most devastating effect of Jerome’s work is how his translation changed the Gospel. Instead of “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is hand,” Jerome gave us “Do penance (poenitentiam agite): for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (see Matthew 3:2), and “they preached men should do penance” (Mark 6:12). (See also Matthew 4:17; Luke 13:3,5, 16:30, 17:30; Acts 2:38, 8:22, 26:20). And instead of having Christians “declared righteous” in justification, Jerome’s rendering in the Latin was justificare, or “to make righteous”:
“One of the problems that led to confusion was the meaning of the word justification. Our English word justification is derived from the Latin justificare. The literal meaning of the Latin is ‘to make righteous.’ The Latin fathers of church history worked with the Latin text instead of the Greek text and were clearly influenced by it. By contrast, the Greek word for justification, dikaiosune, carries the meaning of ‘to count, reckon, or declare righteous.’ ” (R.C. Sproul, Resurrection and Justification)
Jerome’s translation was devastating to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Because the Vulgate had men entering the kingdom of God by “doing penance” and being “made holy,” instead of through repentance and by believing, the glorious gospel of Justification by faith alone was veiled to many for more than a thousand years. Indeed, “many men died of the waters” that had been made bitter, for they were left trying to earn God’s grace by doing penance and hoping that God would make them holy enough to deserve heaven. In this darkness brought about by the Vulgate, they further stumbled into Eucharistic Adoration, and trusting in Mary to deliver their souls, as well as a great many other errors particular to Roman Catholicism.
By the time Jerome’s translation was underway, the Diocesan Division of the Roman Empire was complete, and as we noted in A See of One, Roman Catholicism had claimed three of them—the Diocese of the East, the Diocese of Egypt, and the Diocese of Italy—for its own as the Three Petrine Sees. Jerome had settled in the Holy Land, in the Diocese of the East, to render his Vulgate translation. Thus the lamp that “fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters” refers to the Diocese of the East where Jerome completed his bitter translation, and from there it spread to the rest of the world:
“Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land” (Jeremiah :23:15)
Fourth Trumpet: The Sun, Moon and Stars Grow Dim (536 A.D.)
“And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.” (Revelation 8:12)
The Fourth Trumpet results in the dimming of the light of the sun, the moon and stars. We have documented evidence of this happening in the tenth year of Justinian, 536 A.D.:
“And it came about during this year that a most dread portent took place. For the sun gave forth its light without brightness, like the moon, during this whole year, and it seemed exceedingly like the sun in eclipse, for the beams it shed were not clear nor such as it is accustomed to shed. And from the time when this thing happened men were free neither from war nor pestilence nor any other thing leading to death. And it was the time when Justinian was in the tenth year of his reign.” (Procopius, History of the Wars, Book IV, ch XIV)
This “extreme climate event” was attested by contemporary historians around the world. Notably, it was a “persistent dust veil” or a “dry fog” that was described—just such a fog that would have dimmed not only the sun during the day, but also the moon and stars at night. Thus, not only did the day lose one third of its light, but “the night likewise”:
“According to written records and supported by dendrochronology and archaeological evidence, for 12-18 months in AD 536-537, a thick, persistent dust veil or dry fog darkened the skies between Europe and Asia Minor”(Archaeology, Dust Veil of 536 A.D.: Cometary Impact, Volcanic Eruption or Near Miss?)
Despite the evidence from the historians and the tree rings, the dust veil itself has never been satisfactorily explained:
“The dark cloud may have originated from a northern volcano, being visible only at latitudes north of the Mediterranean, or the fog may have been locally more restricted, perhaps damp, originating from a totally unknown source.” (Antti Arjava, “Mystery Cloud of 536 DC in the Mediterranean Sources,” Dumbarton Oaks Papers Vol. 59, (2005), pp. 73-94)
Among other disruptive effects, the mysterious dust veil is credited with crop failures, starvation, and initiating the Plague of Justinian, that “killed as many as 25 million people” and would later come to be known as the Black Death.
Summary Thus Far
By way of a summary, the First Four Trumpets are:
Trumpet 1: Eden Burning (359 A.D.)
Trumpet 2: The Egyptian Tsunami (365 A.D.)
Trumpet 3: The Latin Vulgate (382-404 A.D.)
Trumpet 4: The Mysterious Persistent Fog (536 A.D.)
It should be noted that unlike the Seals, which progressed in linear fashion, the Trumpets grow increasingly farther and farther apart. This trend will continue as we pick up with the Fifth Trumpet next week.
Next time when a Catholic Answer type apologist tries to prove that Martin Luther added the word alone in the Bible, these verses which has he for she changed in Gen 3:15, penance with repentance and some others be cited!
Leonard,
Jesus spoke about doing penance in sack cloth and ashes. John the Baptist wore skins and ate bugs. People fasted. Gave alms. Zachaeus promised to restore 5 times what he may have unjustly taken. Paul shaved his head. He also beat his body and did vigils.
Jesus said, “When you fast…”. Not “If you fast…”.
Repentance is part of penance.
By the way, how do you read Gen 38:10. Kevin says its okay to cast seed on the ground.
Tim,
So it all started with Jerome? The Fathers before him didn’t believe in the Eucharist? Or Mary?
Too bad you haven’t been following my brilliant ( Okay, so some other Catholics weighed in too ) posts on the evils of artificial means of birth control on Jason’s site this past week or so.
I too have been thinking about the final showdown for some years now.
Please, put the Bible and history books down for a minute and take up a newspaper.
Now, pick the Bible back up. The Brave New World vs The Woman is coming. Contraception and the redefinition of man are the dragon’s weapons.
Since you are on the side of those who endorse it, you are on the dragon’s side.
This is bigger than Catholic vs Protestant stuff. Way bigger.
Tim, I am just stunned at the clarity and the parallels you are making. The 3rd Trumpet Wormwood and the bitter water. Jerome’s recurring dreams and his absolute mistranslation that changed the gospel. Erasmus admitted to Luther that Jerome had mistranslated dikaiou into justifcare. And that changed the gospel. But I did not know that Jerome was the reason for Rome mistranslating repentance to penance. And the contributions of his lack of hebrew knowledge also to the Marian and Eucharistic worship. Don’t stop Tim. Put it all in a book. I’m convinced if Roman Catholics will give you a fair read, the Spirit will lead them in the truth of scripture. We need to pray to this end. K
Thanks, Kevin,
That is the plan, at some point. Thanks for weighing in.
Tim
Tim,
” Don’t stop Tim. Put it all in a book. I’m convinced if Roman Catholics will give you a fair read,…”
Ha! Like hell we will! Ha! This is rich. Does Kevin really think people like me would give you a “fair read”.
What a laugh.
Thanks, Jim. You’re always welcome here. I don’t expect a “fair read,” per se, but I do rather enjoy interacting with you, and I appreciate your participation.
Tim
Tim, of course 2 corinthians 3:13 gives, tells us why you won’t get a fair reading from Jim. Roman Catholics are veiled. Some God has even blinded. Standing before God “in Christ” or “in Rome” which will justify a man.
Kevin,
People who endorse contraception are blinded by sin. Once a person, Catholic or Protestant submits to the temptation, God gives them over.
Married people and single people as well as clergymen are called to be saints. Chastity according to one’s station in life is demanded to be saved. Contraception among married people is as if the couple divorce every time they have relations. It goes against the covenant they vowed to enter into.
Marriage is a sign of the union of Christ and His Church. Contraception says the grace that flows from Christ to His Bride can be blocked off or made unfruitful by man.
Don’t be talking Gospel while spurning obedience to the law of God.
Murderers, adulterers, thieves, etc. and those who commit onanism will not enter the kingdom.
Speaking of penance, many people who have sterilized themselves by tubal ligation or vasectomy cannot reverse the procedure. As a penance, they choose to use NFP the rest of their lives. Of course, they can’t make a baby anyway, but the spirit of reparation for their sin calls them to it
You guys are on aiming at the wrong target.
Tim, It has become so clear, the antithesis between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. Tim, I really believe Paul’s gospel of “not of yourself” not of works” to the one who does not work” ” not of righteous deeds” if its by works its no longer by grace” is not overcome-able with the Roman Catechism’s definition of merit ” recompense owed.” This is the same antithesis for Paul between ‘hearing by faith” and works. Here are statements from Trent ” to the one who works well to the end” “as a reward to their merits and good works” “recompense owed” “converted to their own justification” Here is Paul’s antithesis, ” not of yourselves” not according to righteous deeds” “not of works” Clearly two different gospels.
Leonard, good point.
Tim,
Apocalypse or Revelation means to draw back the veil and reveal the Lamb’s Bride, the Church. That has been done. All the imagery in the book refers back to apostate Israel. The city of 7 hill, the kings, the dragon, the harlot and the Woman, has already be revealed. It all took place by 70 A.D. You are trying to reinvent the wheel.
Of course I believe the book has polyvalent meanings and some things can be applied to future events. That’s where the EU, the UN the US, China and the one world of birth control come in. I am not sure how Islam will play into all this but I think your theory is like the ones they show on the liberal History Channel from time to time. Only Kevin* will buy it.
Good luck finding backer for your book/movie.
*Speaking of Kevin, he respects you so much. Maybe if you tell him that one cannot ignore the moral law and claim the blood of Christ at the same time, he will believe it. Tell him how the Gospel works. He thinks one can commit Onanism and be saved without repenting or, more specifically, doing penance.
Ahem, Roman Catholics as well as Protestants agree as to the origin of Futurism and Preterism, the latter being the view that Revelation refers to the fall of Jerusalem, if not pagan Rome in 410.
Jim,
I’m not sure I’m following. You wrote that all this was fulfilled prior to 70 A.D.:
But at the same time you wrote that it is all yet future, as well:
I’m not sure how you can maintain a Preterist-Futurist hybrid like that. It seems to me that your approach is to take people’s attention off of everything that took place between 70 A.D. and today to make sure nobody will conclude the obvious: that Roman Catholicism is the Antichrist of whom we were warned. An interesting tactic, to be sure, but well worn from overuse.
Thanks,
Tim
Jim is one of those guys that instead of coming in and considering all the work you put out and what has been written here. In 2 paragraphs he gives his whole apocalyptic Revelation view and thinks he just refuted what you said. He’s all about making a splash. The antichrist is the condom.
Tim, i used a big word i got from Tim Staples and Scott Hahn. I said “polyvalent”. ( Don’t be proud. I had to look it up too).
Tim, you wrote:
“I’m not sure how you can maintain a Preterist-Futurist hybrid like that.”
This hybrid is called partial preterism. It is an inconsistent view, but is common among many.
Thanks, Walt. I agree. My point was that Jim had said all of it had already taken place:
That’s full preterism. To turn around after saying that it all (dragon, woman, etc…) took place in the past, and yet some of those same things (dragon, woman, etc…) are yet future, is inconsistent, which is what I was highlighting.
I was once, informally dispensationalist, then partial preterist, but left them all behind years ago.
Thanks so much,
Tim
Jim, Reformed don’t believe we ignore the moral law. WE are commanded to keep his commandments. But you guys have the order wrong. We are justified by faith alone in Christ alone, not works or keeping the Law. I’m mean at some point Jim being an intelligent man that you purport to be, when you read ” not of yourself” not of works” you would say to yourself my religion says partly of works and something isn’t right here.
Kevin,
Keep it up with your “not of yourselves” business. Sin is “of yourselves” and will cost you salvation. You say I have the order wrong. You must be talking about how good works flow out of the justified person. Contraception is not a good work. It’s a sin. So explain why justified people are contracepting.
If works are a proof of regeneration, why are regenerated Protestants committing the sin God struck a man dead for committing?
You are between a rock and a hard place Kevin. Either you admit your order is wrong or you say contraception is not a sin according to Genesis 38.
You avoid Gen 38:10 like the plague. Robert and Eric have avoided it for a week now. GOTCHA’!
Eric W, if your lurking. You are laying the wood to Mateo on Jason’s site, and rightfully so. I have enjoyed your responses. I hope you and your family are well. I was wondering if you would be willing to exchange emails? Thanks Kevin.
Kevin,
Old Eric W. has been careful to keep quiet on this issue over on Jason’s. I think he has been trying to change the subject so Robert can slip out of the cross hairs.
You know Kevin, all this wrangling over sola this and sola that between Catholic and Protestants is nice but, at the end of the day, I think God reads hearts. He isn’t going to give a catechism test on Judgement Day. He is going to look at our works, our lives, our deeds, our obedience and love for His moral law.
I lived outside the Church as a young man. This very issue of contraception brought me home.
This is written on the tablets of our hearts. Catholic, Protestant, Jew, pagan, whoever, is violating nature and is at war with natures God when they have sex after rendering what God designed as holy to be a selfish act that pushes God out. Maybe Protestants who have been misled by their ministers “will get fewer stripes”, but they are going to get some.
As I told Robert, there is no such thing as a healthy sex life. Sex is not healthy. In the Bible, there are only two kinds of sex. Holy sex within the covenant of marriage that is open to life or mortally sinful sex. Contraceptive sex in marriage is not holy. It violates the covenant. It’s a sin like sodomy, bestiality, masturbation, pedophilia, adultery, or fornication. Please don’t tell you are justified by faith alone if you engage in this stuff.
If you want to tell me your kingpins like Luther, Calvin, the Synod of Dort, etc. etc. got it wrong on this, go ahead. I love it when you guys break with your own tradition. But you still have deal with what the law in the Bible says and what the law on your heart says.
Kevin, lots of African and Indian pagans know this is wrong. Sigmund Freud did too. And Gandhi. How can a Christian, not know it?
Tons of conscientious Protestants have come clean, got honest and decided to enter the Catholic Church on this issue alone. Only the Catholic Church has it right. Why? How?
Jim, you wrote:
Old Eric W. has been careful to keep quiet on this issue over on Jason’s.
The RCC is more consistent than Prots on the issue. Fertility cults are always more consistent.
———————
You must be wearing a condom on your nose as you typed that.
Kevin,
All is well…ok emails if Tim doesn’t mind helping us
Jim, on judgment day God is going to say well done good and faithful servant. Pass thru you are in the righteousness of Christ. John 5:24.
Jim, Psalms teaches you are to enjoy the breasts of the wife of your youth. We are not to deny one another except for prayer. God made sex enjoyable in marriage. Not forbidden. I’m not taking down the ropes and mirrors. LOL Jim, sex between a man and his wife is intimacy and supposed to be enjoyed and great play time. We are to enjoy it as God made it.
??????????????????/////
Yeah. Thanks for telling me! I am going to run and tell my wife right now!
Jim, if men lost their salvation for masturbating there would be no one in heaven. I agree it is a sin. But men struggle with this and God forgives us ALL our sin in Christ. ” for by one offering He perfected for all time those who ARE sanctified. Jim, i have known many Christian men who have struggled with masturbation multiple times a day for many years. Did they lose their salvation during those struggles. NO They sought forgiveness and repentance. But Christ blood was no less covering their sin. You have such a small view of what Christ did on the cross. He saved us, reconciled us, sanctified us, redeemed us, adopted us, made us an heir, sealed us in the Spirit, and purchased us, all by His blood, his death and resurrection. You think God is going to throw Robert into hell for using the barrier method. NO
Kevin, quit excusing sin.
Tim, could you exchange emails for Eric W and I like you did for Walt and I. Thanks Kevin
Jim, You keep bringing up over and over that I respect Tim so much. What does that have to do with the price of condoms in China. I have actually read Tim’s articles here. He puts in allot of time in on them. They have historical and Scriptural support. His exegesis is solid and so is his history and his hermeneutics. He isn’t perfect. We all have error in our theology. But i like guys that do the digging. When I get on a bandstand Jim, there are guys like you who try to baffle with their bull crap. Then their are guys who have done the digging, know the chords to the tunes, the changes, and the words to the songs. These guys who do the digging are called professional in my industry. Tim is a guy that has dug on the Scripture. Your a guy who wants to tell someone you know the tune, but when they hear you play, you can’t blow your nose. You dig. LOL
Hey Jim, can you throw something up on all those people in a hissy fit over contraception on Jason’s blog. Was the RC guilty of a severe form of contraception when they prohibited their clergy from taking wires or having sex with them? Isn’t any from of abstinence thwarting God’s fertility plan? How is this different than a barrier method? Can you ask Mikel that? They would love to hear from me.
Tim, Kevin’s remark is so cornball I can’t answer it. Celibacy is like contraception? Will you talk to him for me? Explain that celibacy means to have no sex for the sake of the kingdom. Contraception is having sex. Selfishly. Can you do that for me as I don’t think I can keep a straight face trying to tell kevin about the birds and the bees at his age?
Should be taking wives
Kevin,
Go ahead. I don’t mind. Ask Tim to help you with the Gn 38:10 passage you have been dodging for 2 or 3 days now.
Jim, your the cornball. Forced celibacy is a decision not to do God’s will the same thing you are purporting with contraceptives. The bible is clear that a Bishop is allowed to marry. Fro Rome to take this away from their Priests is a decision from keeping them from filling a quiver, the same decision you are causing Protestants of by avoiding pregnancy with contraceptives. So why don’t you care about God’s word in regards to your wicked leaders and how the prohibit marriage but you turn around and want to hammer Protestants about contraceptives. Is prohibiting a man from using his seed and putting him in an unnatural state ( which the results of which has had sinful ( pedophile repercussions around the world) different than him spilling it. Hypocrite.
Kelvin,
“Jim, your the cornball. Forced celibacy is a decision not to do God’s will the same thing you are purporting with contraceptives.”
Forced celibacy? No one is forced to be a priest of bishop, Kevin. Did you not know this?
“The bible is clear that a Bishop is allowed to marry.”
Does the Bible say he must marry? No. It just says he cannot have had more than one wife prior to ordination.
“Fro Rome to take this away from their Priests is a decision from keeping them from filling a quiver,”
And how full is your quiver, sir?
“the same decision you are causing Protestants of by avoiding pregnancy with contraceptives”
Since when do Protestants listen to us?
.” So why don’t you care about God’s word in regards to your wicked leaders and how the prohibit marriage but you turn around and want to hammer Protestants about contraceptives. Is prohibiting a man from using his seed and putting him in an unnatural state ( which the results of which has had sinful ( pedophile repercussions around the world) different than him spilling it. Hypocrite.”
So, St. Paul and Jesus were in unnatural states?
Gotta jump back to the fun blog!
Jim, are you serious, back in the medieval times you could walk down an Italian street and find allot of children calling the Priest uncle, if you know what I’m saying. They forced the Priesthood into celibacy so the church could confiscate their property and money. Forced families, Priest families on the streets with nothing , all for the sake of your wicked leaders.
Jim, Quit saying NFP is not contraception. Every time you say this you set your church back. Whats the difference between the decision to avoid having children thru NFP pr the barrier method. God judges the heart. And if you believe avoiding children thru non abortive contraceptives is wrong then certainly NFP is wrong. Please spare us the hypocrisy. Your church changed the their position, slight of hand. So that means eveytime you practiced NFP you were on barrier island. LOL
Jim, you and your cohorts better get to the Priest fast. Before 1853 NFP was mortal sin. So if the decision by the magisterium wasn’t infallible, since they can’t tell you what is and what isn’t, you may still be in mortal sin in need of walking the second plank. And depending on how much sex you had, you better get those hall Marys and novenas going right now. Since I am a member of Priest hood of the saints jim. as an act of satisfaction you must write Kevin an apology letter and get his good name back on Jason’s site.
Tim, I wish you would go on Jason’s site more and stand up for JBFA which you do so very well. Most of the Protestants over there are more interested in calling a synod on contraception and getting sometime of new ECT form signed. Many of them think Rome is another denomination in need of a few tweaks.
Tim, I wanted to apologize if my last post was rude in any way. I know you are busy with many things. Please accept my apology if my tone was wrong. K
Hellou Brother Timothy Kauffman!
Sorry, i have another Question.
You already told there are 2 Judgement in Dan 2 & 7.
So have i understood it rightly that in Rev. 6-8 the Seals & Trumpets are FIRST judgement and the last 7 (rev 15 or 16) are SECOND judgement.
If yes: i understand that the seals are on the roman Empire, to cause them into 13.
But what are then 7 trmpets? They came After first judgement which caused the roman empire into fragements…
So, i understand 7 seals and 7 bowls.
One Roman Empire, One Anti Christ (catholicism)
and the 7 trumpets??? Thank for clarification as alwyas!
okei… im sorry. I have listened sempre reformanda radio and i understood, you ment that all (3×7) are the FIRST.
And Rev. 19 is finally the SECOND strike.
You dont have to answer my last question !
Thanks Timothy Kauffman!
but i would be nice if u can adress, why the last 7 bowls are espacially against the roman church.
for example the first siels were against roman empire, and than it changes to roman church (anti christ)
but the first stone in Dan 2 & 7 is against roman Empire? why it changes than after the first seals against the roman church?
Mr. Kauffmann,
i would be happy if you would answer this question. I am thinking about since weeks.
If I watch the two judgements in Daniel, i see 1 against roman empire and THE SECOND against the AntiChrist (like you describe)
so what is exactly THE FIRST judgement? Seals, Trumpets and Bowls?
Or only the Seals?
Because the objectif of all those 21 seals, trumpets and bowls change from the roman empire to the antichrist.
How can we harmonsize this with
1 judgement against against Roman Empire (Dan 2:34)
1 judgement against anti christ (Dan 2:35)
Again, sorry! and thanks!
No worries. Good questions:
The First strike of the Stone occurs against the Roman empire (the 4th empire of Daniel’s visions), and results in the fragmentation of the Roman empire into 13 dioceses by about 380 AD. This corresponds to the First Strike of the Stone, and is depicted in Daniel 2:34, Daniel 7:11 and Revelation 6. A study of the 7 Seals shows that these all occurred prior to final 13-way division that gave rise to the Little Horn as the heir-apparent of the Roman Empire, and in fact brought it about. The first strike of the Stone is a judgment of the Kingdom of Heaven against the Roman Empire, and is administered from Heaven, and corresponds to the Seven Seals, which in fact have the effect of fragmenting the Roman Empire and bringing about the rise of the Little Horn.
The Second strike of the Stone, by way of contrast, is against the Little Horn itself (the 5th empire), and is specifically against the Beast, the False Prophet and the ten horns, and occurs upon Christ’s return and notably is delivered on Earth. This is depicted in Daniel 2:35, Daniel 7:22,26-27, and Revelation 19:11-21. The Second strike occurs upon Jesus return to earth, and does not correspond to any of the Seals, Trumpets or Vials for reasons I provide below.
The Seven Trumpets follow upon the groundwork being laid by the Seals for the rise of Roman Catholicism, and notably do not proceed until the elect have been marked out to be preserved from the great apostasy about to come up on the earth (Revelation 7:1-8). This I place on August 23, 358 A.D., for reasons upon which I expound in Do not weep for Nicomedia. When you read through the Trumpets, it is clear that they do not correspond to either of the Strikes of the Stone, but rather to the “strong delusion” of 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
This is evident for the following reasons:
Trumpet 1 (359 A.D.): Romans in retreat after suffering losses at the hands of the Sasanian Empire (see First Seal about the Sasanian empiring “conquering and to conquer.”) In retreat, the Romans left the territory in flames, a sign taken by many Scholasticus (History III.24) of the madness of Julian, the last pagan emperor of the Roman empire before the emperors thereafter were ostensibly “Christian”. Socrates Scholasticus also refers to the deluge that followed a few years after his death, as does Jerome, and sees Julian’s death (and the accompanying signs) as a portent of the new world order with Roman Catholicism as the religion of the new world order.
Trumpet 2 (July 21, 365 A.D): Egyptian Tsunami utterly destroyed Alexandria. Jerome (Life of Hilarion, 40) took this, as well as a sign of the great evil of Julian the Apostate, and by contrast the truth of the Roman Catholic religion.
The Trumpets continue as Jerome compiles the Latin bible with all its errors (Trumpet 3 (382 – 404 A.D.)), the cloud over Europe, North Africa & Western Asia that obscured the sun, moon and stars (Trumpet 4 536 AD) that resulted in the Plague of Justinian, the crusades (Trumpet 5 1096-1256 AD) that destroyed Europe’s economy and enslaved her population in a fruitless and destructive attempt to regain Jerusalem for “Christianity” and Trumpet 6 (WWI-II, 1914-1945 AD) in which two myriads, within 31 years, destroyed the same region and cost Europe a generation of young men.
What is valuable to keep in mind here is that the Seals actively destabilize the Roman empire and prepare it for its future overlord (the Little Horn), and conclude just as the Roman Empire is about to be fragmented 13 ways, while the Trumpets largely reinforce in the Roman Catholic mind the “truth” of his religion and cause him to embrace its superstitions and idolatries even more enthusiastically. As in Pope Gregory the Great who, in response to the Plague of Justinian had a statue of Mary carried in procession around the city and in response to the end of the plague, had a statue of Michael the archangel erected on the castle. Truly it may be said that in response to these plagues men did not repent of the nonsense and superstition that arose in the wake of the Seals which had prepared the way for the rise of Roman Catholicism. Thus at the conclusion of the 6th Trumpet John observes:
As we have shown, the Seals target and fragment the Roman Empire. The Trumpets largely entice Roman Catholics to be even more Roman Catholic. But notice that the Trumpets did not punish the Beast and the False Prophet. They were focused on the reprobate who followed after the lies and the error and fell for the Strong Delusion.
The Vials, on the other hand, do not begin until after the introduction of Eucharistic Adoration and are the seven last plagues, and are directed not against the Beast and False Prophet but against the people that worship the image of the beast, follow the false prophet and put their trust in the Papacy. It is notable that these plagues do not focus on destroying the Beast and False prophet, but rather focus on inflicting plagues on those who worship the image, with similar effect as the Trumpets: they “blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds” (Revelation 16:11)
The Second Strike, which is the actual destruction of the Papacy and the False prophet, such “that no place was found for them” (Daniel 2:35) and “and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end” (Daniel 7:26) does not occur until Christ actually returns to earth and casts the Beast and the False Prophet into the lake of Fire (Revelation 19:20), and THAT does not occur until after the Trumpets and Vials.
So the short answer therefore (after the long one) is that the Seals correspond to the First Strike and result in the fragmentation of the Roman Empire to give rise to Roman Catholicism. The Trumpets and Vials, instead of dissuading men from following Rome and participating in her superstitions and errors, rather encourage people to embrace the errors all the more, just as the Scriptures in fact prophesy they would. So the Seals correspond to the First Strike, doing what the First Strike suggest in Daniel 2, fragmenting Rome. The Trumpets and Vials do not destroy the Beast and the False Prophet and therefore to not correspond to the Second Strike of the Stone of Daniel 2.
I hope that helps.
Hi Timothy Kauffman
I came again to a point, where i cant solve it alone.
“We note therefore that in the earliest description of Eden, all grass (literally: young, green herbage) and one third of the trees, are given for food. Thus… …all grass and a third of the trees—draws us back to a precise geographic location”
I dont understand how you come to the conclusion that “a third” of the trees where there to eat.
My problem in understanding is that there is 1 tree of life, another tree, and then a lot of others. This means that those are not “a third” but rather 99% and 1% of trees and special trees.
Where am i making the mistake?
Thanks again for clarification!
In Christ
Alessandro
Hi, Alessandro. That is a very reasonable question. My point was simply that all the kinds of green grass are given for food, but only one of three kinds of trees mentioned in Genesis is given to Adam for food:
All kinds of grass. Only one of three kinds of trees. That is what is given for food.
When reading this Trumpet in Revelation, it’s interesting that it calls out “all grass” and “the third part of trees” was burnt up. These are the only places in Scripture where the trees and grass are described in these ratios. This of course draws our attention to Eden when reading the Trumpets narrative.
In the context of the Seals & Trumpets, it is also interesting that:
a) The first Seal was for the rise of the Sasanian Empire, “conquering and to conquer,” an ominous introduction of a challenger to the Roman empire, who would play a part in the state of affairs that led to Rome’s fragmentation
b) the first Trumpet was the Romans retreating in defeat as the Sasanian Empire continued to challenge the Roman empire to the east, bringing about its destabilization
c) Because the Romans did not want the Sasanians to forage for food as the Romans retreated, they burnt up every green thing in their path.
d) their path happened to cross the Tigris and the Euphrates which are geographically related to the Garden of Eden.
e) the angel for this Trumpet would be authorized to destroy food as part of this plague, but not the tree of life or the tree of knowledge, and therefore there are limits set on what can be destroyed (e.g., all the food, which would be all grass and only third part of trees)
e) Notably when the fifth trumpet sounds, locusts cause men to be stirred up to invade the Holy Land, and the first place they go is the County of Edessa, which spans the region of the Tigris and the Euphrates. This time the men who are tormented by the locusts would not be able to achieve their objective (the holy land) if there was no food for them to forage along the way, and interestingly, this time the angel was not allowed to harm “the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;” but only to torment the men themselves.
It is quite a convergence of related verses between the Seals and Trumpets, and the geographic region where the Garden of Eden had been, and remarkably that geographic region played a part in the fulfillment of the First Seal, the First Trumpet and the Fifth Trumpet, as well as the destabilization that led to the fragmentation of the Fourth Empire, as depicted in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7.
The Seals, Trumpets and Vials narratives of course are very rich in imagery from both the Old and New Testaments, and often point us to a passage by way of a passing reference, or to relevant current affairs. By way of illustration, Revelation 17:10 in its recitation of the 7 kings, draws us to Daniel 10, where the angel uses the succession of kings to make his point on the transition of Empires, but also refers to then current events in Revelation 17:18, referring to “that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth”, a reference to Rome which in John’s time, was the capital of the empire, but at the time of the fulfillment of the prophecy, would not be.
As I have mentioned before, just as every time period matters (1260 days, 1290 days, 2300 days, etc…) every fraction matters, too. The fourth part of the earth (Fourth Seal) for example occurs during a brief period when the Roman Tetrarchy was in place, and all the grass and 1/3 of the trees refers to events that took place somewhere that Adam was only allowed to eat from all grass, but from only 1 of three kinds of trees. It is an interesting attribute of the first four trumpets and the fifth trumpet, that the fraction 1/3 is used repeatedly. 1/3 of the trees (First Trumpet) is a reference to “kinds” of trees. 1/3 of the sea (Second Trumpet) is a reference to the portion of the sea affected by the Tsunami that, due to the epicenter and the location of the islands in the Mediterranean Sea, only affected 1/3 of the Sea. 1/3 of the rivers (Third Trumpet) is a reference to 1/3 of the compilations of Scripture (Hebrew, Greek, Latin, so I believe) being corrupted by Jerome (Latin) in Jerusalem. 1/3 of the sun, 1/3 of the moon, 1/3 of the stars and 1/3 of the day (Fourth Trumpet) refers to the dimming of the sun, moon and stars by 1/3. (Interestingly, it is not 1/3 of the stars that are affected, but rather all stars are affected, all being dimmed by 1/3, just as the sun and moon had been dimmed by 1/3 and the day shortened by 1/3. The third part of men (Sixth Trumpet) killed does not refer to 1/3 of all mankind, but rather a reference to the toll of wars which largely cost us our young men (e.g., Jeremiah 11:32)—men being divided into three parts: little children, young men, and fathers (1 John 2:13).
There is certainly interpretation going on here. I believe that knowledge of the timeline—e.g., understanding the period of the feet, and therefore when the Stone would strike them—alleviates some of the difficulties that would otherwise obscure these passages.
I hope that helps.
wow, this is extremely deep. I appriciate your thoughtful answer! I understood and yes, it helped a lot!
Sorry for all my questions, but i am every day hours to understand the scripture and all your thoughts, which i found incredible. So sometimes i have to ask. Because i deeply want to understand. So i can not NOT ask. its simply impossible.
so, again, i appriciate it very much! Thanks, thanks, thanks! <3
Alessandro Stabile, from Switzerland
Timothy Kauffman!
This was SO important.
I cant describe it better than: Perfection.
It makes so much sense, now i understand so much things better. Now its clear, i am so happy that you gave this explanation!
Thank you so much Tim! Im am soso happy for that!
In Christ
Alessandro Stabile from Switzerland