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Last week we began our series on the Bowls of Revelation 16, the first of which was the Stigmata, the “noisome and grievous sore” that fell “upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image” (Revelation 16:2). As we explained last week, the Papacy is the Beast, the Apparition of Mary is the False Prophet, and the Eucharist is the Image of the Beast of Revelation 13. The Stigmata, which is alleged to be an imitation of the five wounds of Christ, is known to manifest in those most fervently devoted to the worship of the Eucharist, and in some, their sores start bleeding at the mere mention of it. Padre Pio, one of the most famous practitioners of Eucharistic Adoration and now known as a patron saint of Eucharistic adorers, is the second most famous Stigmatist in history. Francis of Assisi is the first. In the 12th century, Francis of Assisi was one of the most vocal proponents of Eucharistic Adoration, a practice that had only begun the previous century, and as one of its early advocates he also became the first man in history to receive the “noisome and grievous sore” of the wrath of God for worshiping the Image of the Beast. In 1224 A.D., he received the Stigmata, a “noisome and grievous sore” that continues to afflict Eucharistic adorers to this day.
This week we continue with the Second Bowl.
Second Bowl: The Plague of the Sea (starting in 1453 A.D.)
On Tuesday, May 29, 1453 A.D., the great city of Constantinople fell to the Ottomans after a seven-week siege. The Fall of Constantinople marked the end of 1500 years of western dominance in the region. As crushing as the loss of Constantinople was to the west, the outcome of the siege also carried with it a consequence that would change the the course of history and the face of the earth in ways scarcely imaginable at the time. Not only had the west lost what had once been the capital of the Roman empire, but it had also lost the coveted trading route to the east.
The Silk Road, as its name suggests, was a largely overland trading route that connected the east with the west. When the Ottomans took Constantinople, they also took control of the Silk Road, and in retribution for the Crusades, they effectively cut off the west’s access to the precious commodities from India and China. The west’s isolation from its suppliers of spice in the east, led to what would one day be called the Age of Discovery.
The Fall of Constantinople therefore marks the beginning of the one of the most ambitious exploration initiatives of all time. With the loss of the lucrative overland trading route, the wealth of the western world was singularly focused on finding an alternate route to India by the only mode of travel the Ottomans could not control—the sea:
“Ottoman rulers of the day were anti-western, countering the crusades, … so expressed their displeasure by embargoing trade with the west. The disappearance of the Silk Road following the end of the Mongols’ reign was one of the main factors that stimulated the Europeans to reach the prosperous Chinese empire through another route, especially by sea. Tremendous profits were to be obtained for anyone who could achieve a direct trade connection with Asia.” (Wikipedia, The Silk Road)
“The Western Europeans, not wanting to be dependent on an expansionist, non-Christian power for the lucrative commerce with the east, set about to find an alternate sea route around Africa.” (Wikipedia, The Spice Trade)
The reason Christopher Columbus was searching for an alternate route to India, was not to prove that the world was round. He assumed the world was round, and by that assumption believed he could reach India and its coveted spices by sailing west. Unaware of the two continents of North and South America that separated Europe from the east, Columbus assumed he had reached India in 1492, resulting in the misnomer that has been assigned to natives of North and South America to this day: “Indians.”
By 1497, Vasco da Gama was also on his quest in search of Indian spices with a fleet of four ships, traveling south, then east around the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa. In 1499 he returned with his ship, its cargo hold laden with spices. In 1500, Pedro Álvares Cabral discovered Brazil while on a voyage to India seeking spices, and by 1515, Juan Díaz de Solís, had sailed down the east coast of South America as far as what would one day be Buenos Aires, Argentina. By 1519 Ferdinand Magellan had reached Tierra del Fuego at the southern tip of South America in an attempt to find the western route to India and its spices. When Magellan’s ship, Victoria, finally made it home, most of its crew had died but its cargo was intact: 26 tons of spices.
Meanwhile to the north, explorers were seeking a northwest passage to the Indies and the Spice Islands of the Pacific as well, but the going was much more difficult. John Cabot tried in 1497 to find a passage to India by traveling north, but discovered Newfoundand instead. Many others tried as well, but it was not until Amundsen’s expedition in 1903 that the Northwest Passage was finally successfully navigated by ship.
The abbreviated history of the Age of Discovery is that for more than three centuries after the Fall of Constantinople, the wealth of the former Roman Empire was invested with singular focus on finding an alternate route to the East Indies to replace the trade route that was lost when the Ottomans shut down the Silk Road. That alternate route was by sea, and the precious cargo those many ships carried were spices from India.
But the exploration was not without a cost in human life. With the age of exploration came the introduction of the long haul sea voyage, and with that, one of the most perplexing medical challenges in naval history: scurvy. As the Encyclopedia Britannica explains, “toward the end of the 15th century” which was the dawn of the Age of Discovery, “scurvy became the major cause of disability and mortality among sailors on long sea voyages.” The cure for Scurvy was not discovered until well into the 18th century, and in the mean time, millions upon millions of men died at sea in quest of spices. It was not until 1753 that Scottish naval surgeon James Lind showed that scurvy could be cured and prevented by ingestion of the juice of oranges and lemons. Soon citrus fruits became so common aboard ship that British sailors were referred to as “limeys.”
Stephen R. Brown, in his exhaustive historical work on the disease—Scurvy: How a Surgeon, a Mariner, and a Gentleman Solved
the Greatest Medical Mystery of the Age of Sail—explains that it killed millions of men at sea, and was the number one killer during the Age of Discovery:
“Scurvy was responsible for more deaths at sea than storms, shipwreck, combat, and all other diseases combined. Historians have conservatively estimated that more than two million sailors perished from scurvy during the Age of Sail-a time period that began with Columbus’s voyages across the Atlantic …. Like a constant but irritating and occasionally violent companion, it had sailed with virtually every major voyage of discovery, from Jacques Cartier to Vasco da Gama to Francis Drake. Explorers feared it, the merchants of the Dutch and English East India companies feared it, and by the eighteenth century Europe’s national navies feared it. It was not uncommon for a proud and lumbering warship to slide to sea from Portsmouth or sally forth from Brest with more than seven hundred mariners and return months later with only three hundred sickly wretches—the unlucky others perishing horribly from the ‘grey killer’ during the months at sea….”
Another author and student of scurvy, Jonathan Lamb, identified the southern voyages in search of spices—east around the Cape of Good Hope and west around Cape Horn—as the point at which scurvy began to reap its terrible toll:
“Scurvy … does not become a problem until navigators probe the Indian and Pacific Oceans, and then it takes a terrible toll. In 1499, Vasco da Gama lost 116 of his crew of 170; In 1520, Magellan lost 208 out of 230 … —all mainly to scurvy.” (Jonathan Lamb, Preserving the Self in the South Seas, 1680-1840 (University of Chigaco Press, 2001), 116-117)
And this brings us to the identification of the Second Bowl of Revelation 16:
“And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.” (Revelation 16:3)
When the Second Bowl is poured out upon the sea, it becomes “as the blood of a dead man.” This description is unique for John. At the breaking of the Sixth Seal, the moon “became as blood” (Revelation 6:12). At the blowing of the Third Trumpet, “the third part of the sea became blood” (Revelation 8:8). At the pouring out of the Third Bowl, “the rivers and fountains of waters … became blood” (Revelation 16:4). The Second Bowl is different, for the sea “became as the blood of a dead man.” It is the only time he applies the possessive clause, “of a dead man,” to his description of blood. What is the blood of a dead man like?
When the prophet Isaiah described God’s fury upon the nations, he wrote of the dead, “their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood” (Isaiah 34:3). The Scriptures here identify what modern science would one day understand—that blood accelerates the process of putrefaction, causing the stench of death: “The softer the organ, the more blood it contains, and the nearer to the sources of bacteria, the more rapidly it putrefies.” (Forensic Pathology Online, Putrefaction (warning: graphic images))
It is the bacteria in the blood that causes the stench associated with putrefaction, and this is why it was customary among the Jews to apply spices to the dead. The Jewish Encyclopedia explains that “undoubtedly with the view of removing the odor—spices were put on the coffin” of the deceased (Jewish Encyclopedia, Burial). Burying the body with as much as a hundred pounds of spices was “the manner of the Jews” at a funeral, including “myrrh and aloes” (John 19:39-40). When Mary the harlot anointed Jesus with “spikenard,” He defended her actions because she had done this “against the day of my burying” (John 12:1-7; see also Mark 14:1-8). Notably, spikenard is “the head or spike of a fragrant East Indian plant.” When Jesus died, the women came on the first day of the week to anoint His body with spices (Mark 16:1; Luke 23:56-24:1). Notably, the aloes that were used would have come from East India.
It is not insignificant that in John’s day, spices from East India were applied to the dead in order to offset the stench of putrefaction, a process of decomposition that is accelerated by the dead man’s blood. East India was precisely the geographic objective of the explorers during the Age of Discovery, and spices were their cargo. It was during this period that the sea was literally covered in spices the way a dead mans blood is covered up with them. In that sense, the sea “became as the blood of a dead man,” for the sea was covered with spices from East India in a way that had never happened before.
The next part of the Revelation 16:3 says that the effect of the Second Bowl is that “every living soul died in the sea.” Surely this cannot be taken to mean that “every living soul” on earth died in the sea, for there are yet people left on earth to suffer the consequences of the remaining Bowls in Revelation 16:4-21. It also is not taken to mean that every living soul in the sea died—for John does not use that wording as he did with the Third Trumpet. The last time John had people dying in the sea was at the sound of the Third Trumpet (Revelation 8:9) and in that case he said “the creatures which were in the sea, and had life [psuche, or soul], died.” Here the phraseology is different, and he says “every living soul [psuche] died in the sea.” The subtle shift is worth noting.
In the first case, those in the sea died. In the second case, those that died were in the sea. We take this subtle shift to mean that the death poured out upon the the unfortunate victims of the Second Bowl of Revelation was limited exclusively to people who were at sea. This is a reference to Scurvy, the Plague of the Sea by which millions of European sailors died, a disease that is so associated with seafaring that its cure led to a nickname applied only to sailors—”limey.”
Thus did the Second Angel pour out his Bowl upon the sea. The sea “became as the blood of a dead man” (a reference to the East Indian spice trade after the Fall of Constantinople), “and every living soul died in the sea” (a reference to scurvy, the Plague of the Sea) during the Age of Discovery.
Next week we will continue our series on the Bowls of Revelation, by examining the Third Bowl, which is poured out “upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.” (Revelation 16:3).
Tim,
I got just a few paragraphs into your yarn and have to stop. Your history is bad.
Columbus knew the world was round as everyone else did too since the days of the Greeks.
Washington Irving is responsible for popularizing the flat earth myth. I have a special interest int the age of discoveries. La Rabida, Sagres, Belmonte, Nazare, etc etc. are places I busy myself visiting as if I was on pilgrimage. Columbus, Cabral, Vasco Da Gama, etc. etc. knew the world was round and sailed to take the Catholic Faith and Baptismal Regeneration to the heathens.
Tim, please. I don’t know if I can read any further. It is so bad.
( PS. I thought about you yesterday on the feast of St. Francis of Assisi. )
Tim, want to talk Columbus ( with means dove as in the Holy Ghost ). Did you know who taught him the route he should take? Did you know he changed the name of his ship to Santa Maria? Have you read how he required his mean to finish each day on deck sing the Salve Regina? Have you ever read what he said the purpose of his mission was?
You like to trash Guadalupe in Mexico right? Do you know the original shrine is in Spain, midway between where I live and Madrid in a mountain village? Do you know what Mary really called herself to Juan Diego? ( No, it wasn’t Guadalupe ).
Mary, Mary, Mary! Tim, Our Lady is all over the age of discoveries.
Tim, you really should scratch this article until you have done some research and know what you are talking about.
Thanks, Jim,
I don’t think I understand your objection. I said explicitly in the article that Columbus’ first voyage “was not to prove that the world was round.” The fact that he knew it was round was the basis for his belief that “he could reach India and its coveted spices by sailing west.”
Did you somehow infer from this that I was saying Columbus believed in a flat Earth? I don’t know where you’re getting that out of the article.
Tim
Tim,
I saw that Jim again misrepresented your statements again about the world being round, but will appeal to the Catholics who don’t generally read what is wrote by the original author, but in blind faith follow those leaders like Jim who misrepresent what the author writes. They love to do this with all the reformers, and then scare the weak Catholics and forbid them from reading the original text of the author.
That is why you as a former Catholic actually go to the source documents rather than listen to what Jim and other Catholics say these people teach. You can see how deceptive Jim is when he misquoted you and will win the hearts of some Catholics. Jim is a master at this on this site.
You wrote:
“I don’t think I understand your objection. I said explicitly in the article that Columbus’ first voyage “was not to prove that the world was round.” The fact that he knew it was round was the basis for his belief that “he could reach India and its coveted spices by sailing west.”
Thank you for calling him on this deceptive tactic used by him and others.
Tim wrote:
“The Stigmata, which is alleged to be an imitation of the five wounds of Christ, is known to manifest in those most fervently devoted to the worship of the Eucharist, and in some, their sores start bleeding at the mere mention of it. Padre Pio, one of the most famous practitioners of Eucharistic Adoration and now known as a patron saint of Eucharistic adorers, is the second most famous Stigmatist in history. Francis of Assisi is the first. In the 12th century, Francis of Assisi was one of the most vocal proponents of Eucharistic Adoration, a practice that had only begun the previous century, and as one of its early advocates he also became the first man in history to receive the “noisome and grievous sore” of the wrath of God for worshiping the Image of the Beast. In 1224 A.D., he received the Stigmata, a “noisome and grievous sore” that continues to afflict Eucharistic adorers to this day.”
It is fascinating that this “Stigmata” is associated with a “noisome and grievous sore” in Scripture, but yet so many of the Roman Catholics look at these signs as great godly miracles, and could never imagine them being Satanic.
Satan is certainly the master of deception.
OOPS! Tim, I obviously misread you. Mea culpa!
Walt,
Tim taught me that “noisome ” means something stinks. Go back to your reading on the stigmata and then get back to us on what the wounds smelled like. ( Hint: they anything but stank. )
While you are at it, tell us what padre Pio ate.
Better still, tell us what Theresa Neumann ate. And remember, she couldn’t fake it as the Nazis put her under surveillance to see how she did it.
Enjoy your reading Walt.
PS Some think St. Paul was the first to have the stigmata. As for Francis, his were invisible, weren’t they?
And why don’t you read up the heart of St. Theresa of Avila.
Jim,
No worries. I’ve made mistakes in the past, too, as you know.
Actually, Bob taught you that. My response to Bob was that “noisome” is the English rendering for the Greek “kakos”, but everywhere else in Scripture that “kakos” is used, it means evil (40 times), evil things (3 times), harm, that which is evil, etc…, so the general sense is “evil”, not “smelly.”
The story is related by the Franciscan friars here:
That sounds both “visible” and “noisome.”
Francis’ friars didn’t think so:
If St. Paul had it, the Franciscans wouldn’t say the stigmata was “unheard of in times past,” would they? I think Faustina’s were “invisible,” as suggested here:
Thanks,
Tim
Tim,
It probably wasn’t until saints with the stigmata came to be that people started reflecting on the mysterious thorn Paul had written about afflicting him.
Jim, you wrote,
That is simply an astonishing claim. You have essentially claimed that an apostolic teaching on the stigmata was lost for 1100 years until some Roman Catholic friars of the 13th century suddenly “realized” that the stigmata is what Paul had been talking about all along when he said, “for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus” (Galatians 6:17). Are you really going to maintain that the Roman Catholic Church lost track of an apostolic teaching, and recovered it via private revelation 1100 years later, with not a word from the Fathers to attest to it in the meantime?
That’s pretty bold.
Thanks,
Tim
Tim,
will all Eucharistic adorers have the stigmata? Or just one in a billion or so? Should I be worried about developing it? I do a weekly Holy Hour.
Walt is reading about the smell of roses that accompanied the stigmata. Isn’t it supposed to be a fetid rotting stench?
This person is an example of some really weird events:
http://listverse.com/2013/07/18/10-miraculously-bleeding-women-of-the-20th-century/
“For years, Mary Ellen Lukas has stayed “under the radar” so to speak, keeping a low media profile while traveling the US and other parts of the world speaking at churches and religious institutions under the guidance of her pastor, the Bishop of the Scranton Diocese, and her visions of Jesus Christ. Not much is known about the life of the wife and mother from Hazelton, Pennsylvania, nor the mysterious stigmata that bleed on her forehead, palms, feet, and side during Mass, Good Fridays, and whenever she mentions the Eucharist. She permits no photographs and wears black fingerless gloves to conceal her wounds. Reportedly, thousands of believers flock to her public appearances. She is associated with the Catholic lay ministry, Our Father’s Divine Work.”
Can you just imagine comparing an Apostle to someone like this women who starts bleeding during mass, good friday’s and whenever she mentions the Eucharist?
It really borders on the occult in the most obvious sense.
Jim, I’m not really sure what article you read. Are you on the same wave length as the author who wrote the article above?
You wrote:
“Walt,
Tim taught me that “noisome ” means something stinks. Go back to your reading on the stigmata and then get back to us on what the wounds smelled like. ( Hint: they anything but stank. )”
Where did you get this connection? You often make crazy false charges against so many people on this site that do not agree with you so perhaps there is confusion in your reading the article. Tim explains that the stink comes from the blood in the bacteria after death.
“When the prophet Isaiah described God’s fury upon the nations, he wrote of the dead, “their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood” (Isaiah 34:3). The Scriptures here identify what modern science would one day understand—that blood accelerates the process of putrefaction, causing the stench of death: “The softer the organ, the more blood it contains, and the nearer to the sources of bacteria, the more rapidly it putrefies.” (Forensic Pathology Online, Putrefaction (warning: graphic images))
It is the bacteria in the blood that causes the stench associated with putrefaction, and this is why it was customary among the Jews to apply spices to the dead. The Jewish Encyclopedia explains that “undoubtedly with the view of removing the odor—spices were put on the coffin” of the deceased (Jewish Encyclopedia, Burial).”
I’m not sure what you mean. It is best to try to represent someone truthful than be deceptive as you often do to say things that people do not say. I know this is a typical Catholic style with others who oppose their views, but you should repent.
Walt,what does any of this have to do with the stigmata?
Jim,
I just went back and read last week post on the stigmata, and I still cannot find any reference to where Tim taught you that the stigmata was “noisome” and stinks. Please tell me where this is and I will withdraw my comment about you being a liar and deceiver misrepresenting people.
“The “noisome and grievous sore” in Revelation 16:2 is a “weeping sore” or “a wound, esp. a wound producing a discharge pus” like that of Lazarus the beggar, whose sores were licked by dogs in Luke 16:21. The Stigmata is precisely such a “sore.”
The Stigmata, literally, “the wounds,” is allegedly a manifestation of the five that Christ sustained in His Passion, and those who receive the Stigmata experience tremendous pain from their seeping wounds. As Catholic Online informs us, “All the recipients of this mystical wounding suffered dreadfully.” That pain is ostensibly offered back to Christ in reparation for sins, and stigmatists who so suffer are offered to Catholics as models for taking up the cross of Christ and following Him daily.”
Tim,
Whether or not Paul had the stigmata would hardly be an “apostolic teaching”.
Tim, you wrote to Jim:
“Jim,
No worries. I’ve made mistakes in the past, too, as you know.”
You are being overly kind with Jim for his habitual sin.
Walt,
Thanks. I don’t know if you missed it in the comments last week, but in the original post on the Stigmata, I incorrectly attributed a Eucharistic Hymn to Francis of Assisi, but acknowledged the mistake later the same day — the prayer was by Aquinas, not Francis, so I updated the post to reflect Francis’ support for Eucharistic adoration.
Since I thought Jim may have made his mistake today by reading in haste, and because he apologized and has graciously opted not to dwell any longer on my gaffe from last week, I thought it might be best not to dwell too long on his hurried reading from today. Well, that’s the context of the “no worries” comment, and the “I’ve made mistakes in the past, too, as you know” comment.
Thanks, as always,
Tim
Tim,
I saw your correction last week to Jim when I was in Copenhagen, and understand your gracious comment to Jim.
However, since I have started reading and posting on this blog there is sincerely nobody who more purposefully and intentionally (e.g., sinfully and habitually) takes people out of context and really focuses on belittling ever poster who does not agree with the Romish antichrist dogma than Jim.
It really is incredible how a few of us have tried to post simple questions of clarifications and comments to their counter blogs Jim raves about, and are silenced just asking questions. Jim comes here so often and hammers on your mom and your family, and curses up and down against Kevin, and he is tolerated. I assume you do this due to his willful ignorance so often, and his probably being an older guy who was really damaged as a youth by something in his family that will not allow him to even read what you write, or what others write on here without abusing them.
It is really none of my business, but I read many of his comments from last week, and the way he treats people, and it just demonstrates why I will never ever go back to the pure mind control of Roman Catholicism. Jim is the perfect example of how really evil the system is once you get into it deep, and how worshiping the creature over the creator has been mastered by these people.
I’ll not raise the topic again about your kindness shown him, but bear in mind that the reformers spoke out clearly and specifically against these false brethren who they considered to be soul murderers…a truly serious crime. While Rome was the greatest physical murderer and torturer in the history of planet earth, far greater than any wars operated by pure dictators, it is incredible how many souls they (with the help of guys like Jim) they are taking into everlasting torment and few see it in our generation.
As you previously mentioned (if I am correct) in so many words, the doctrine of the reformation and reformers against this evil is really disappearing and mostly lost. So many follow after this beast and antichrist, as even Bob has demonstrated, in the hope for toleration and promotion of such much evil that comes out of her doctrinal system.
Thanks, Walt,
Your point is noted and well taken. It is not my intent to interact with Jim as if he were among the brethren, and much of my deference to him is related to his age; But some of it is also because when I first came to a Bible Church in 1989, I spoke and acted much like Jim, and the saints loved me, and I heard the Word and I believed and repented. Jim is not among the brethren, but perhaps he is among the elect. At least that’s my hope for him.
That said, your point is a good one, and well taken.
Tim
Walt,
“Jim comes here so often and hammers on your mom and your family, and curses up and down against Kevin, ..”
Would you please give me a specific example of when I have ever hammered on Tim’s mom or family? Kevin also makes this charge. Please, show me when or where.
Curse Kevin? And you are good with what Kevin says against the Eucharist?
Jim you play with your words like a sly fox, and have done much to bring Tim’s personal family into these topics to disgrace them since you started posting here. It makes me disgusted as I think about how Rome took my own father to hell (unless he repented with saving faith upon his death bed) as he could not break away from their clutches, and tried to take my mom as well.
It is men like you that are so seriously dangerous to so many souls, as your types block all counter voices to your theology, and then pleading liberty to voice your own counter attacks against anyone who testifies against the Romish Antichrist.
You perpetually and systematically ignore Scripture proof texts given you and further discount the historical evils Rome has caused hundreds of millions, and the sheer global deception causing more than a billion in our generation.
The only hope I have with you is that you don’t call yourself a Christian where the Scriptures are the basis of your religion but consider yourself a devoted Catholic where Romish tradition is your god and the Eucharist is your deity.
Tim,
My mistakes are the mistakes of a layman. Yours are those of an “expert”.
It’s like if a layman and a doctor both see and auto accident and try to render help. If the layman makes matter worse by misapplying a tounequet, he is absolved of malpractice. If the doctor accidentally kills someone, he is charged with a crime.
Tim, you hammered away about the hymn endorsing bread worship. That is a serious slur. If you are going to make such an allegation, you had better make sure you are on solid ground. You actually argued with me on this remember? You basically called me an idiot who doesn’t know Christ from a crust of bread. You unleashed your heckling henchman on me with his offensive remarks. Please, don’t pretend to Walt that you are letting my puny gaff go by because you a such a forgiving Christian. Your mistake and mine aren’t even in the same ballpark.
Tim, your scholarship is pathetic and you know it. Only Walt and kevin would by your theories.
Jim,
You’ll be happy to know that in 1994 when I published Graven Bread, I correctly attributed Adoro te Devote to Thomas Aquinas. Maybe I just had better editors back then. 🙂
It just goes to show that I have already forgotten more than some Roman Catholics will ever know about their own religion.
Thanks,
Tim
Tim,
Every Catholic knows St. francis
Walt,
Tim’s long account of the explorers has nothing to do with his theory.
Tim and Kevin,
Just so you ladies aren’t still swooned out by my use o’ the “P word”,Check out what the Bible said.
“So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.”
Pisseth against the wall?
Jim, do Christians keep justifying their bad behavior? Stop already.
Kevin,
You just implied I was a Christian. A brother in Christ. Are you selling out the reformation? Oh My!
Why should I stop vomiting on this site? Because you asked me to? So what? I asked you not to say offensive things to me. You ratcheted up ( much to our nice friend Tim’s disapproval. Ha! )
You don’t respect me. Am I supposed to care if I offend you?
Jim, the bible says when you go to reprove a fool he will slap you in the face. I’m done trying to reprove you. May God save you Jim.
Tim,
Did you notice that Kevin threatened me with bodily injury. He says he is physically imposing, rippling biceps, six pack abs, glutes to die for from his “Buns o’ Steel” workouts.
What am I to think? I am quivering so badly I can hardly punch the keys.
This is your Christian blog, Tim. Tell him to act like a proper Christian gentleman. Wear the pants. Tell him that a Christian never loses his composure and whips the money lenders and turns over the tables. Tell him to be meek and mild like yourself. Tell him not to be offended by my mocking him. Just tell him to be offended by how I worship. Like you are.
Tim, does your Catholic mom “offend” you? How do you stand it, you poor thing?
Tim, I hope and trust you see Jim has resorted to complete chidish behavior for the sole purpose of disrupting this site. I have told him I love him, I am praying for him, and I forgive him. Dont know what else to do. He seems to bevgettingvworse. I think he needs attention and thinks he can get you to kick him off the site. But younprobably already see thru this.
Kevin, I have all the name and email changes that you have. Tim can kick me off and I could keep popping up anyway just like you do on CCC.
But you know what, I wouldn’t. I don’t give a ding dong what Tim does. This site is nothing but you.
Did you forgive me Kevin? You are such a saint. Ha! I don’t care what you do!
You should be asking my forgiveness. So should Tim. But what can you expect from a man who disrespects his own mother. Talk about violating the law!
Jim, I have apologized to you, but I will never apologize to you if I offend your bread idol, or your abominable sacrifice of the Mass ” the work of the people”. Every evil is in your blasphemous Mass. Idolatry, magic hocus pocus, rendering my savior an eternal victim on a cross with an imperfect sacrifice, and a work for grace, and a sign of no faith. Ill never apologize for the summit of your entrance to hell. Never.
Apologized to me? For what? When? What are you blabbering about now?
Jim, exactly how does Tim disrespect his mother? How can you bear false witness about a man and then not care. You have been confronted numerous times on this and you are unrepentant. Jim you act like there is infused hate in you. Where is the love your enemies? For Tim to reject his mother’s religion is not disrespect. We are to deny mother, father, brother to follow Christ. Your complete lack of humility and unwillingness to take correction tells me you are no Christian. You bear false witness about a man. Repent.
Kevin,
Tim corrupts his own children. He teaches them to look down on their grandmother, his own mom.
Tim’s mentor, whom I knew, also had mom issues. Although we were adversaries, totally out of context of our relationship, he revealed his negative feelings to me about his own mother. At that moment I knew what his anti-Catholicism was all about.
Tim accuses me of the impossible, worshiping something with my whole heart, soul and mind that I don’t intend to worship.
Tim, to what degree he knows it or not, has an emotional problem. What he intends and what he does may not be quite the same.
II think everyone over on CCC should read Tim’s remarks, including those about his mother. That explains all. They are duped into long drawn out and boring discussions with Tim, not know they are going nowhere as Tim is just playing games. He know his material is bogus. The CCC boys think he is a sincere Protestant.
You are a lame brain. A dupe. But Tim is different. His problems are not yours. He is coming from another place altogether.
Tim,
The Witnesses are meeting over at Kingdom Hall tonight. OOOOH! I am sooooo offended!
Maybe I will go over and mock them like Elijah and you do.
I hear the Muslims will have another Haj this year. I take it as a personal insult. Harrrumph! How dare they? Don’t they think they should take into account how it makes me feel?
The guy down the street doesn’t go to church. He spits in my face by sleeping in on Sunday morning.
Tim, I know how you feel. Just thinking about how you Calvinists think you can’t lose your salvation, or that election is unconditional makes me want to cry. I can’t eat my dinner.
And what about those Jews, Tim? They have been offending me for thousands of years, even before I was born.
I am going to the synagogue this Saturday and mock them for their funny haircuts, I will call them Christ killers. Maybe I will pull a Kevin and tell how their Passover supper is idolatry.
They offend me personally by not becoming Catholics.
Tim,
Did you see the plug I put in for this blog over on CCC? Who loves ya’ baby?
Yeah, I just referred a fellow to come over and see the nice set up you have here. Do show him around.
( Direct him away from my nasty Luther talk. We don’t want him to get the wrong impression. He doesn’t care for negativity of any kind.)
Just have him read the very scholarly articles and be sure he sees “death wafer”.
Oh, and tell him about your Pulitzer prize winning book. He needs to know about it.
Tim,
I thought long and hard and came up with this. Tell me how you like it.
You hi-fived Kevin. You just don’t know. Much Like I worship bread without knowing it.
There. Happy now?
Jim, The bible says you go to reprove a fool he will slap you in the face. You are a fool Jim. After all those years you never learned. The scripture says ” The wicked were created for the day of destruction.” don’t say we never warned you about worshiping your death wafer and worshiping the woman who considered herself the Lord’s slave. 1 John 5:21 ” little children guard yourself from idols. Roman Catholicism is idol worship and you bask in it.
you are a troll and you bask in it.
Tim,
You accused me of false witness against you. Maybe yes. maybe no. What does it matter? Although St, Paul said we should not do evil for a good purpose, who cares? Whats wrong with lying if it gets the job done, right?
As someone who insists he knows all about Catholic doctrine and practice, having been a Catholic, you know Catholics do not worship bread. Even the Methodist guy had to call you on this false and absurd charge.
Still. accusing us of bread worship gets the job done.
Falloni also knows we don’t. He learned to say we do from you Tim.
He says it all the time because he simply wants to irritate. It gets the job done.
Denigrating the Church is the higher cause that makes your lying legitimate in your eyes.
Okay, fine. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Jim, your losing your mind. Do you hve altzheimers? You are an angry old man. Not becoming.
Tim,
I just clicked on CCC to see Justin, Kenneth and James engaging you in charitable and scholarly dialogue.
You really have them buffaloed. If they had any sense, if they saw the puke Kevin posted a few hours ago under your aegis, they would wake up and address you as scornfully as I do.
They don’t know where you are coming from. ( James might be on to you ).
I got to somehow get them over here, to see your articles and Kevin’s comments.
Have you ever had a family member that you didn’t know was hooked on dope come to you with a story about needing to borrow money so they could…? Later, when you discover they have an addiction, it all makes sense; the weird stories, your TV missing, the money gone from your wallet, who had been using your credit card, etc? Motive explains everything.
Have you ever talked to a lunatic or a criminally insane sociopath without knowing with whom you were chatting? I have. I’ve known killers, thieves, weirdos and perverts.
They sound convincing until someone whispers in your ear that they are crazy and very dangerous. Then everything falls into place and you see them clearly for the nuts they are.
All of CCC really needs to see this site.
Jim, Eric emailed me today, and he was stunned how much Catholics hate me, especially Jason’s site. There was a certain Catholic who told me to go hang myself and he would supply the rope. The same one who just called me a puke. You know why they hate me? Because I confront them with their idols, I just re read Tim’s book Graven Bread. And one thing was clear to me. The Papacy is truly the antichrist, the tool of Satan, that is wooing people to hell thru the encouragement of the appartion of Mary, and the death wafer. Leading them into idolatry. The only thing we can do thru the weakness of preaching the gospel, is expose this idolatry, and preach the gospel.
Tim, was there ever a worse mass killer in history than the Roman Catholic church. Your documenting in Graven Bread of the inquisition left me numb. Truly the church of Christ? Antichrist.
Tim, After finishing re reading Graven Bread today, I am convinced there is no better refutation of the Roman church that I have read. And probably the most telling things are how the apparitions of Mary are anti gospel and anti Christ, in presenting Mary as the substitute savior. It hit me that the true disqualifying of them is in their stripping Christ of all we are taught in scripture He is and His glory. And it is the co legitimizing between the Popes and the Apparitions that perpetuate this lie. Satan is indeed clever. Only a regenerate heart could see this, and given that not many care. I do. K
Kevin,
Quit bogarting Tim’s blog. Every time I leave him a message, you butt in an answer it.
Scram.
By the way, now that you have finished reading Tim’s pulitzer prize winning screed, you can use its pages to line your parakeet cage.
And Kevin, Tim is busy. I would like to talk to him about the upcoming feast day but I don’t want you jumping in with your prattle.
Tim is very busy blogging on CCC and doesn’t have a lot of time for this one. So, quit demanding what little time he has.
He prefers CCC.
( here is where I gotta tell you, NO!, I am not goading you to go barge in there it. So when you do barge in, don’t say, ” Duh, Jim told me to. I only done it because Jim telled me to. Why is everybody mad at me. Blame Jim.” )
If I told you to go jump in a lake, would you do it?
Jim, you love attention dont you? The blessed trinty, me, myself, and I, thats you Jimboy. Jim, lose the Tim high fives me stuff, its old. Jim was that you in the idol parade you provided, in the green suit and the gray hair. It looked like you. I thought I saw some plastic rosaries in your pocket? Or were you one of the guys in the baritone band on the cavalli? Sad huh marching bread and posters of the mother of Jesus in the street with a lame baritone band on horses and one old man followng his idol. I love you Jim.
Kelvin,
“marching bread and posters of the mother of Jesus in the street with a lame baritone band on horse”
” Jim, lose the Tim high fives me stuff, its old. ”
If I say to Tim, ” Tim, you are big fat phony. You never slur and say ” marching bread” but have your stooge Kevin do it for you. You say it by proxy.”
And then Tim, says, ” Hey Jim, I saw the marching bread video” just to show me he is in solidarity with his stooge.
Then the stooge ( that’s you Kevin ) chimes in with a ” Great one, Tim!”
That is a HI Fiver, pure and simple. Tim denies it, but you girls do hi five on this blog.
as for the bugler, did you think it was all about the muzak?
Please, quit bogarting Tim’s blog. If I accuse him of collusion in your shenanigans, he can always distance himself from you by taking back his own blog rather than delegating to you to be his spokesperson. You are the dominating figure on Tim’s blog by Tim’s silent approval.
Jim, if you only knew how right on Tim’s book is. I pray every lost Roman Catholic would read his book. His chapters on the disobedience of the Catholic mass in putting both elements in the bread should be noted. Jim, have you read it? As much time as you take up on this site dont you think you should at least read the book before you criticize it. Im praying before you die Jim, you will give up you idols and you will belive on Christ alone for your salvation. ” what profits a man to gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul” I pray you are among the elect Jim. ” come out from her my people.
Dear Tim,
I just returned from my trip tonight, and still facing a little bit of time difference so woke up to see a program on EWTN called “Walk To Mary” on television.
This is the most unbelievable thing I’ve ever witnessed from standard Americans who are gathering to walk 26 miles in dedication of Mary. They are all carrying either crosses, or pictures of mary or statues of mary and all really (in so many words) falling over themselves to “be with their lady”.
Growing up I never saw anything like this type of dedication to Mary. They said the crowd has doubled since last year. Have all these people completely become disconnected with Scripture? I simply cannot believe my eyes or ears when I listen to these people testify about their dead family members and how Mary is handling their loved ones. Where is this even remotely in Scripture?
This is really incredibly tragic what Rome is doing to these poor people. It brings tears to my eyes thinking about how these people are being so deceived.
Walt,
You say you were once Catholic? And you never saw a procession before? Why would a former Catholic be shocked at a procession?
Please, don’t pretend to know anything about Catholicism any more.
Jim, nice job playing the baritone on the horse. Takes allot of ballance. The band is lame though lol.
Here are some of the pictures from the 2013 walk. I cannot find the 2014 walk (which was double the size of 2013).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thecompass/sets/72157633429429856/
You can see them carrying the statutes. It is just incredible.
Here is their website:
https://www.walktomary.com/
Thanks, Walt,
Trust me, I share your shock and surprise—not necessarily because it is so shocking on its face (since Roman Catholicism ultimately leads to carrying dead idols around and worshiping them) but because Protestants don’t know about this idolatry, and when they find out, they don’t care.
Here’s an example of a similar procession, but for a consecrated wafer: http://thecatholicbeat.sacredheartradio.com/2014/06/27/events-through-july-4/
Total surrender to a wafer.
After an elder at a previous church married his son off to a practicing Roman Catholic in a Roman Catholic Church that engages in perpetual eucharistic adoration, I brought such processions as these to him and to the pastoral staff as examples of the manner in which he had now joined our church to Baalpeor, per Numbers 25. They were unmoved.
Tim
Tim/Walt, Guys!
The flicks on your link are pretty unimpressive, Walter.
Take a gander at the procession I was in this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4T_llBco8
If you look hard maybe you can see me.
In a couple of days Portugal is going to be alive with candlelight processions. I can hardly wait.
By the way Tim, my church has 24 hour adoration only once a week only. However, I am planning a trip to Paris. In Sacre Coeur on Monmarte they have it 24/7.
I love it!
Tim,
” an elder at a previous church married his son off to a practicing Roman Catholic”.
I think it is the girl who is “married off”, not the boy.
By the way, I want to give you an example of you Hi-Fiving Kevin. But not now.
Guys!
Here is another one we have every year too. St. Anthony ( c’mon, you two experts on Catholic devotion know who he is, right? Tim probably doesn’t as Anthony was a Franciscan. Tim mixes Franciscans with Dominicans )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPUq8To1Osg
Tim, ask your mom who she prays to when she loses her scissors or a bill or something around the house.
This day is Portugal’s equivalent of Valentine’s day. Lots of weddings.
It is also the beginning of the roasted sardine festival. Yum!
Tim,
I am just shocked at what I am seeing with these processions. Yes, I guess I’m totally disconnected from the what is going on with these events.
Jim,
I was raised in a very wealthy area where the Catholic School I attended and the Catholic Mass I attended daily was in the heart of a very wealthy area. The Priest did not wear Clerical Dress, nor a clerical collar. The Priest outside of mass wore only the finest clothes and drove a new Cadillac, and spent most of his time at the local drinking establishment most evenings to socialize with the locals. Within a few years after I left he was replaced, and the Catholic School was shut down due to the nuns and priests molesting the children who lived in the school. I’m sure you support this sort of thing for these “holy men” but those are the facts.
Soon thereafter the Church raised millions and millions from the billionaires in the area and built a massive new church after they tore down the old school. It has been 30 years since I have been back inside the church, but it is very possible that they do processions now.
When I grew up there was no processions I ever attended, nor have I paid much attention to them until what you have showed me. Even my father and mother I don’t believe ever attended any of those events.
You are bordering on the insane to be following these things! 🙂
Only bordering Walt?
Sounds like your priest was a Protestant Televangelist with all his wealth and pomposity, huh?
Jim,
Yes, he was a real successful priest at raising money and playing with the boys. Sort of like what has blossomed in Rome as we recently saw by the movie Tim shared, and such of the reporting around the homosexual boom in Rome among priests.
As far as TV evangelists, you should be over hear watching EWTN as it is turning into quite the TV evangelical network now showing how insane Rome has become. I watch stuff now on that program to really grasp what in Portugal are actually living day to day.
I know there are really some hurting people in there that desire to leave, but going out into the nearly insane Protestant churches is equally difficult from them. Most of the Roman Catholics I know left to worship in their homes by themselves, and I am sure the numbers are huge. The key with all them is they started reading their bible, and started to see that many of the Protestants are also Romanized…thus no place to go. I went to 5 different churches after leaving Rome, and studying the reformation, until finally finding a Covenanter church.
I’ll be in the Covenanter church since Nov. 1998. It will be 16 years next month. Pretty focused on Scottish principles and studying the greatest reformers in history. Not really interested in going back into the Roman Antichrist, nor her Protestant daughters anytime soon.
Jim you should really exit your traditions, and get your tail into studying Scripture before you pass along into hell fire. It is time for you to grow up as you get older, and take the risk to learn Scripture.
Tim,
Because I can’t ever get through Kevin’s screening to communicate with you, I left you a message over on CCC.
And you wonder why I see you two as reverse sides of the same coin? You are the donkey’s head and he is the other end.
He is the jackass ( or maybe you prefer, the jackarse? )
Jim, quit calling me an sob and a jackass. Im tired of it. Nobody is a greater example of those words than you, and I dont cuss at you. Quit saying that I restrict your communication with Tim. Get off my back. Go find somebody else to demean. Eric W said it right on Jason’s site, the wrath of God abides in you. You are incapable of loving your enemy. You are unregenerate. You follow a piece a bread in the streets as if you love God, then you get on your computer and tell me to hang myself asap and you will supply the rope, and you call me a jackass and a S.O.B. , Charity indeed.
You are tired of it?
Have you ever thought that I am tired of your remarks?
Do you care if I am tired of your remarks? No? Then give me one reason why I should respect your request that I not call you names?
You and Tim have to learn that if your want respect, you have to give it.
Jim, of course when you say to get respect you have to give respect, you really mean the philosophical mutual niceties and butt kissing going on in the higher education on Jason’ site. Where Kenneth and Eric say we are not far off, ecumenism considerations, no offending language to doctrine. You know what I call that, giving in. Do you think Robert or Eric know those guysdont give a rip about what they say? If you go in on a Roman apologist terms, which is ECT we are just negotiating the details and then we can sing kumbaya together, then you lose. You might as well join antichist’s church. Tim’s exposition in Graven Bread about the Philadelphians response to Ignatius shoul be our template. So no we aint giving your death wafer idol, your substituting Mary for Jesus as the mediator, and you Pope usurping the Trinity any respect. But personally I will give you respect. K
Kev,
You have been banned from C2C and CCC. They won’t let you say nasty things in GB or Beggars All or on SBC.
Since you seem to delight in offending me by saying death wafer, you can say it all you want to Tim and Walt. I think I will enjoy blogging elsewhere and you can stay here and talk to yourself. You can lurk on those blogs and mutter death wafer til the cows come home. BUT NOBODY IS GOING TO HERE YOU
Have fun!
Oh and TIM,
You were so forthcoming on CCC in your answer. Now that is what I call a real commitment to one’s convictions.
PS I lit a candle for you, your mom and Kevin at Fatima yesterday.
All Roman Catholic lurkers that may be questioning the Roman Catholic church, I would like to encourage you to read Tim Kauffman’s book called ” Graven Bread.” IMHO, It might be the most important book written making the distinctions between the true gospel and the apostasy of Roman Catholicism written today. It is a must read.
Tim, I have always wondered why , Sproul, Horton, and MacArthur were among the few who would not sign the heretical ECT document. It should scare us that so called leaders in Evangelicalism can be so easily deceived and naive. Re reading your book, I was not aware of the history between Ignatius of Antioch and the Philadelphians. If that isn’t instructive to us, nothing is. In Italian we have a phrase, la storia si ripeta sempre. It means history repeats itself. We should all be aware there is nothing new under the sun. Satan and his mystery of lawlessness has always been attacked the church, and unless one is grounded in Scripture, one can easily be led astray. But when a church like Philadelphia had the armor of God on, they can even stand up to a straying Bishop. It is in the immersion of one into the word of God, that the errors of the apostate Rome become as clear as glass.
Jim,
While you find great comfort in lighting candles as a means of communicating with Christ Jesus, I will pray for you that the Lord will take you like He did with Paul and knock you off your high horse…so to speak. I do hope He reforms you.
Here is a good start for you to read (which I know you will never) about the distinctions between religion and the true reformed religion.
————-
IT is not necessary here to state the Distinctive Principles of the Reformed Presbyterian Church, or to prove that they are Scriptural. These things have been done in papers already presented before this Convention. It will be sufficient in this {187} paper to state broadly that these distinctive principles have to do with the relations of the visible Church and of nations to Jesus Christ, the Mediator between God and men, and with a testimony for the fulfilment and against the non-fulfilment of the obligations arising out of these relations.
Personal religion has to do with the relation and attitude of the individual to God through Jesus Christ. There are in it the elements of faith and love, and consecration, and obedience toward God; and justice, and love and service toward men. In considering the relation between these, let us note:—
I. That personal religion is necessary in order to bearing a public testimony for Christ Jesus the Lord as Head of the Church and Governor among the nations. It was a service that, ere His Ascension, the Lord laid upon His disciples that they should bear witness of Him—a service in which they were joined with the Comforter. “He shall testify of Me; and ye also shall bear witness.” Witnessing for Christ in any of His offices, or any of His claims, is a co-operating with the Holy Ghost, who glorifies the Son. And such co-operation is possible only to those in whom the Spirit dwells. It is a service to Christ, and can be rightly rendered only by those who are His servants indeed. Others may be used. Wicked men, and their selfish and wicked plans and doings have been used of God to work out His will. But He who would not accept the testimony of evil spirits, neither needs nor desires the testimony of evil men. “To the wicked God saith: What hast thou to do to declare my statutes?” He who serves before the Lord must himself be “Holiness to the Lord.”
The men who were prominent in the Covenanting struggle in Scotland were men of deep personal piety. Samuel Rutherford is perhaps better known to-day as a man whose love for Christ was a veritable passion than as one of the ablest defenders of the Church’s liberties and the citizens’ rights. Donald Cargill was the author of the Queensferry Paper. It was he who at Torwood pronounced sentence of excommunication against the King and the Dukes of York, Monmouth, and others associated with them, for their contempt of God and persecution of His saints. And this is part of his dying testimony:—“I have followed holiness; I have taught truth; and I have been most in the main things; not that I thought the thing concerning our times little, but that I thought none could do anything to purpose in God’s great and public matters till they were right in their own conditions. And,” he proceeds to say, “O that all had taken this method, for then there had been fewer apostasies.” That they were “right in their own conditions“ was the secret of the power of Rutherford and Cargill and Cameron and Renwick. And reading the sermons of the ministers who, at the peril of their lives declared God’s message to the people in the fields, one cannot but be struck with the personal, heart-searching nature of their preaching, and how anxious they were that those who heard the word at their lips should first of all and above all “be {189} right in their own conditions.” And the humble men and women who, through sore peril and bitter persecution and often death itself, bore their testimony for Christ, His Crown and Covenant, were fearers of God, lovers of His Word, and followers of peace and righteousness. This their history impresses upon us, that personal religion is a pre-requisite to bearing a public testimony for Christ the King. It has ever been the men of faith, of personal devotion and obedience to God, who have subdued kingdoms, and wrought righteousness, and obtained promises.
http://www.truecovenanter.com/reformedpresbyterian/lynd_john_relation_between_principles_and_personal_religion.html
If every living soul in the sea died, how can scurvy be said to be a result of this bowl judgement, since some survived? Not being argumentative, just trying to understand. I hope you are still around and answering questions. I know this post is old.
It’s a peculiarity of the text, actually. There is a difference between saying “every child on the playground was injured,” and saying “every injured child was on the playground.” The first indicates that all children were injured, the second only that all injuries took place on the playground, but not that all on the playground were injured. Just so, there is a difference between “everything in the sea died” and saying “everything died in the sea”, For this judgment, every living soul that was killed by this bowl died in the sea, which is not the same as saying “everything in the sea was killed by this bowl.” That was my point here in the article: