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Those who have been reading this blog for any length of time are at least peripherally aware of the eschatology espoused here. We believe that the prophesied Antichrist of which we are warned by the apostles and prophets was manifested in the rise of Roman Catholicism and is personified in the Papacy of Rome. As we noted last week, in The Fourteenth Diocese, Daniel foresaw that the Antichrist would emerge among of the thirteen fragments of the Roman Empire, would uproot three dioceses in the process, subduing their three metropolitans, and rise up among the remaining ten, growing “more stout than his fellows” (Daniel 7:8,20-22,24-26). That is precisely what Roman Catholicism did as it claimed Rome, Alexandria and Antioch as a single See of St. Peter, aggregating for itself the three Dioceses of Italy, Egypt and Oriens. The papacy of Rome is the Little Horn of Daniel 7 and the dioceses of Diocletian’s reorganization are the other horns of the vision. That reorganization into dioceses began in 293 A.D., and was completed by the end of the fourth century. As prophesied, Roman Catholicism emerged during that time frame when the Papacy came up among the dioceses, “speaking great things” (Daniel 7:8).
According to Revelation, at some point in John’s near future (Revelation 1:1) the events Daniel had foretold would soon begin. According to Paul, the mystery of iniquity had already been at work in the apostolic era (2 Thessalonians 2:7) but was being restrained for a time. Soon the power restraining the Wicked One would be taken out of the way and “that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). As we discussed in our series on the Invisibly Shepherded Church, the Bishop of Rome for the first three centuries of the church on many occasions behaved as a proud, arrogant, petulant, impetuous, overreaching and carnally ambitious member of the early church family, and had to be corrected, corralled, rebuked, restrained, scolded, admonished and reproved by the rest of the church. Then toward the end of the 4th century, the restraint was taken away and the arrogant Little Horn of Daniel 7:8 was finally able to arise unchecked, and the Man of Sin, the Wicked One, was revealed to be none other than the Bishop of Rome. In 380 A.D., his religion was declared to be the official religion of the empire, he was declared to be the new Pontifex, and within two years the Roman emperor formally renounced the title. The Bishop of Rome was now poised to take over the Roman empire from its previous administrators. That is what Daniel had foreseen.
But John had seen even more. The rise of that Wicked One was to be attended by the rise of a False Prophet, the Second Beast of Revelation 13 (Revelation 13:11-17) which we have identified as the Apparition of Mary. Together with the First Beast, the Second Beast was to tell people to erect an image to be worshiped (Revelation 13:14). We understand that Image to be the Roman Catholic Eucharistic bread which is adored throughout the world by Roman Catholics with what is called “latria,” the worship that is due to God alone. As Rome’s own defenders and apologists celebrate, it is one of the chief objectives of the Apparitions of Mary to increase the adoration of “her son” in the Eucharist. The apparitions had maintained a low but steady profile throughout the life of Roman Catholicism, but as we noted in When “Mary” Got Busy, Eucharistic Adoration exploded in Europe at about the same time the apparition phenomenon did at the end of the 11th century. The False Prophet of Revelation 13 was fast at work, complete with its signs and wonders, especially the miracle of bringing the Eucharistic image to life.
As we explained in If This Bread Could Talk, the Image of the Beast—the Eucharist—has communicated audibly with its followers, and has been seen to be bleeding, pulsating, dripping with blood, and turning into flesh in what are called “Eucharistic miracles.” The Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood (Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11,14), and we know that Christians were killed in the Inquisitions for the “crimes” of not acknowledging transubstantiation, for not going to Mass, and for not bowing to worship the Eucharistic idol of Rome. Therefore the False Prophet has indeed instructed people to erect an Image that has come to life and is able to speak, and to “cause that as many as would not worship” it to be put to death, in fulfillment of Revelation 13:15.
As the prophecy would suggest, the attention and adoration of the entire religion is ever upon that image. The image is adored during the Mass, it is carried in procession to be worshiped, it is exposed on the altar to be venerated, and in many places Roman Catholics attend to its worship in shifts—around the clock, seven days per week, twelve months per year—in a practice known as perpetual Eucharistic adoration. As Pope John Paul II taught,
“The Church draws her life from Christ in the Eucharist … Consequently the gaze of the Church is constantly turned to her Lord, present in the Sacrament of the Altar…” (John Paul II, Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 1)
The Eucharistic sacrifice, Rome says, “is the fount and apex of the whole Christian life” (Lumen Gentium, 11), and for this reason, the worship of the Eucharistic idol is the heart and soul of the whole religion of Roman Catholicism:
“The Catholic Church has always displayed and still displays this latria that ought to be paid to the Sacrament of the Eucharist, both during Mass and outside of it, by taking the greatest possible care of consecrated Hosts, by exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and by carrying them about in processions to the joy of great numbers of the people.” (Paul VI, Mysterium Fidei, 56)
But neither the priest nor the faith of the communicant can possibly make the bread cease to be bread and become the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ, and thus the object of Roman Catholic adoration—in fact the centerpiece, “the fount and apex,” of the entire religion of Roman Catholicism—is but a crust of bread, nothing more. The god of the Roman Catholic religion is a wafer of unleavened bread, and Eucharistic adoration is nothing other than the worship of the created thing, a thing which human hands have made. The significance of their unleavened bread idol, however, is not in Who they think it is, but in the fact that the Scriptures warned us of precisely this unleavened idol, this graven bread, the Image of the Beast.
We have covered this territory before, and interested readers may wish to investigate it further by referring to the links above. This week we will spend a few moments examining the recurrent theme of unleavened bread as it relates to the Beast, the False Prophet and the Image in the book of Revelation. Remarkably, a book that makes no direct mention of bread, actually makes bread central to the narrative by two significant references to it.
First, we recall that by instructing people to worship the Image, the False Prophet causes people “to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads” (Revelation 13:16). The significance to our discussion is that the unleavened bread used at Passover is one of three things in the Old Testament that yields such a mark:
“Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; … And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD’S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.” (Exodus 13:7,9)
Of the three things in the Old Testament that yield a mark on the forehead and hand, only unleavened bread can be fashioned into an idol. The other two involve intangible devotional practices that cannot be fashioned into a hand-made idol: dedicating the first born to God (Exodus 13:12-16) and loving the Lord and memorizing His Word (Deuteronomy 6:5-8). Neither of these can be fashioned into an idol that men can make with their hands to worship, but bread certainly can be. John’s warning about the Image of the Beast in Revelation 13 is really a warning about bread. To worship bread is to violate the Lord’s commandments (Exodus 20:3-4; Deuteronomy 5:7-8), and bread-worship is one of the defining attributes of Antichrist. It is of this bread worship that we were warned, and John used very specific Old Testament language from the Feast of Unleavened bread to make his point.
We highlight this particular attribute of the Image of the Beast because it returns again in Revelation 16 between the 6th and 7th bowl, or vial, judgments. The 6th punishment involves pouring out a bowl judgment on the Euphrates to dry it up to prepare “the way of the kings of the east” (Revelation 16:12), something we addressed in our article, What Lies Beneath. The 7th Bowl then brings us to the end at which time “there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done” (Revelation 16:17).
But between the 6th and 7th vial punishments, John mentions a curious vision of “unclean spirits like frogs” coming from the mouths of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet. Those frogs are seen performing miracles in order to gather the kings of the earth for battle:
“And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief.” (Revelation 16:13-14)
Those “frogs” are very significant indeed. Here John has relied heavily upon a singular Old Testament figure, and by this we may understand the frogs’ significance. There is only one other event in all of Scripture that refers to frogs, and that event is the Second Plague of Exodus:
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me. And if thou refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all thy borders with frogs:” (Exodus 8:1-2)
“He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them.” (Psalms 78:45)
“Their land brought forth frogs in abundance, in the chambers of their kings.” (Psalms 105:30)
These three passages all refer to the same event, the Second Plague. To understand John’s reference to it, we will examine that plague more closely. What we find is that in Moses’ description of the Plague of the Frogs, he makes a unique and singular reference to breadmaking, a reference that is absent in the description of every other plague.
In order to make the contrast, we first take note of the effects of the other nine plagues:
First: water turns to blood, affecting the rivers, ponds, pools and any vessel of water in the kingdom (Exodus 7:19).
Third: lice affect both man and beast (Exodus 8:17).
Fourth: flies affect Pharaoh, his servants, his people, and their houses, and the ground that they walk upon (Exodus 8:21).
Fifth: deadly plague affects the cattle, the horses, the asses, the camels, the oxen, and the sheep (Exodus 9:3).
Sixth: boils affect both man and beast (Exodus 9:9).
Seventh: hail affects the men, the crops and the cattle, except for the wheat and the rye (Exodus 9:22, 32).
Eighth: locusts affect all the trees and crops that were left after the hail, and filled the houses of Egypt (Exodus 10:5-6).
Ninth: darkness envelops the whole land of Egypt (Exodus 10:21).
Tenth: death overcomes the first born of all of Egypt, both man and beast (Exodus 11).
The Second Plague, like several of the others, affected the houses and servants of the people of Egypt, for the frogs “shall go up and come into thine house, and into thy bedchamber, and upon thy bed, and into the house of thy servants, and upon thy people” (Exodus 8:3). But, by way of contrast, the plague of frogs is different in that the frogs also infest their kneadingtroughs and ovens:
“the river shall bring forth frogs abundantly, which shall go up and come … into thine ovens, and into thy kneadingtroughs” (Exodus 8:3)
In other words, the frogs would infest the implements of their breadbaking.
We notice elsewhere in Scripture that ovens and the kneading troughs are consistently described, as we would expect, as the implements of baking bread:
“And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.” (Exodus 12:34)
“And the woman had a fat calf in the house; and she hasted, and killed it, and took flour, and kneaded it, and did bake unleavened bread thereof.” (1 Samuel 28:24)
“So Tamar went to her brother Amnon’s house; and he was laid down. And she took flour, and kneaded it, and made cakes in his sight, and did bake the cakes.” (2 Samuel 13:8)
Elsewhere, the Scriptures also make similar reference to the improper use of these implements—one in which the baker oversleeps, and therefore allows the dough to rise, and another in which bread cakes are kneaded and baked in order to be sacrificed to the “Queen of Heaven”:
“They are all adulterers, as an oven heated by the baker, who ceaseth from raising after he hath kneaded the dough, until it be leavened.” (Hosea 7:4)
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” (Jeremiah 7:18)
Thus, in Revelation 16:13-16, by invoking the imagery of the Plague of the Frogs, John has drawn our attention to the only plague that explicitly references the implements of kneading and baking bread. In doing so, he compares the “unclean spirits” emanating from the mouths of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet to those frogs that infested the breadbaking implements of Egypt. The purpose of the “unclean spirits” is clear enough:
“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” (Revelation 16:14)
The unclean spirits are sent out to assemble the kings of the earth against the Lord, and they do so by their miracles.
Notably, the only reference to an “unclean spirit” in the Old Testament relates to false prophets who have caused people to worship “speaking” idols:
“For the idols have spoken vanity … And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.” (Zecharaiah 10:2, 13:2)
In his reference to frogs in chapter 16, therefore, John has drawn our attention to breadmaking implements used to fashion an idol out of bread just as he did in chapter 13. And in his reference to “unclean spirits,” he has drawn our attention to the construction of a speaking idols—just as he did chapter 13.
Twice therefore John refers to the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet in a context that includes an oblique reference to bread, and twice he says that they are working miracles to deceive the world with their idol. In Revelation 13, the False Prophet is able to perform miracles, and “deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles,” even to give life to the image and cause it to speak. By this means the mark of unleavened bread is imparted to the worshipers (Revelation 13:14,16; Exodus 13:9). In Revelation 16, a demonic teaching is carried by unclean spirits from the mouths of the the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet. Like the unclean spirit of Zechariah 13 which causes idols to speak vanity, the “spirits of devils” go out into the world like the frogs of Exodus 8—infesting the implements of breadbaking and “working miracles” to deceive the world (Revelation 16:14).
It hardly strains the imagination to think what demonic teaching it is that emanates from the mouths of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet. And it hardly taxes our faculties to guess what types of miracles those unclean spirits go forth to perform.
Eucharistic Miracles typically are those in which a consecrated piece of bread turns to flesh and blood or speaks audibly to its adorers. Rome has for many centuries leveraged the wonders of Eucharistic Miracles as signs of the “Real Presence” of Christ in the sacrifice of the altar, as proof of the “truth” of transubstantiation and as support for the practice of Eucharistic Adoration. As the Real Presence Eucharistic Education and Adoration Association explains, Eucharistic miracles serve to strengthen the faith of Catholics, and to overcome unbelief:
“Eucharistic Miracles can help us understand and live the faith, which has Christ and Christ-Eucharist as its center. These Miracles are indeed useful as long as they are closely focused on Christ and do not become autonomous. They can strengthen the subjective faith of believers and even non-believers. Hence they are a help to their faith as long as they refer people to the Eucharist instituted by Christ and celebrated every Sunday.” (Real Presence Eucharistic Education and Adoration Association, Eucharistic Miracles of the World: Positive Aspects)
The value of Eucharistic miracles to the religion of Roman Catholicism is self-evident. Those miracles are believed to authenticate what is considered to be the centerpiece of Roman Catholicism, “the fount and apex of the whole” religion (Lumen Gentium, 11), the Eucharistic idol itself.
Although nobody is actually required by Rome to believe in the miracles of the Eucharist, the miracles nevertheless serve as an effective tool for recruiting converts. For this reason the news and history of such miracles is published far and wide as evidence to support the doctrine of transubstantiation and the practice of Eucharistic adoration. See, for example, The Vatican International Exhibition: “The Eucharistic Miracles of the World.” It is easy to see how “unclean spirits” would cause these miracles and then use them as a recruiting tool.
Eucharistic miracles are indeed quite effective for this purpose, and part of the reason for their effectiveness is an ironic but lamentably unscriptural Roman Catholic confidence in the power of the Eucharist to protect people from the very unclean spirits that perpetrate the deception. Examples of this superstition are manifold, such as Roman Catholic monsignor, Charles Pope, who “realized” at the moment of consecration that demons “could not endure His real presence” in the Eucharist, and Bishop Donald Montrose, who believes that Eucharistic adoration is the cure for oppression by unclean spirits.
The error of that superstitious conviction is plainly seen in the Bible. It is not Jesus’ presence that unclean spirits cannot stand. It is His judgment. Satan freely presented himself before God (Job 1:6) and did not leave until the Lord was finished with him (Job 1:12). The devil spoke freely to Jesus in the desert, for “the tempter came to him” (Matthew 4:3), but he did not leave until commanded (Matthew 4:10). In Mark 5:6, a man with an unclean spirit runs not from Christ’s presence, but to His presence to worship Him, and the spirit does not depart until commanded to do so. In none of these cases are the demons seen to flee in terror from the presence of God.
Yet even though the Scriptures do not portray evil and unclean spirits fleeing from the actual physical presence of Christ, Roman Catholics believe, superstitiously, that demons must flee from the alleged Eucharistic presence of Christ—as if the Eucharistic “Jesus” is more immanently divine than the real Jesus actually was on earth, or as if “Jesus” is more physically present in the Eucharist than the real Jesus was when He was actually physically present. The Scriptures do not allow such superstitions. In reality, it is not His physical presence that demons fear, but His inevitable judgment, and they do not depart at His presence, but at His command. Of this fact those demons plainly testify in the Scriptures. They run toward Him to worship Him, depart from His presence only when commanded, and uniformly dread His future judgment:
“What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? … And he said unto them, Go.” (Matthew 8:29, 32)
“And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, ‘Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.’ And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.” (Mark 1:23-25)
“But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, ‘What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.’ For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.” (Mark 5:7-8)
“When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, ‘What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not‘ …. And [the unclean spirits] besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep [lit. bottomless pit].” (Luke 8:28, 31)
We note as well how often in the New Testament that “unclean spirits” are willing to acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God and the Holy One:
“And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.” (Mark 3:11; c.f. Mark 5:7; Luke 4:34, 8:29)
What we know of unclean spirits from the Scriptures, therefore, is that they do not fear Jesus’ presence, but His punishment. They do not flee from His presence but rather at His command. They are willing to say that Jesus is the Son of God, the Holy One of God, and even fall down before Him to worship Him, so long as they can continue to deceive people and lead them into idolatry. What they fear most is not His presence but that Day when He punishes them, and they are no longer able to continue their deceptions.
Once we understand what the Scriptures say of unclean spirits, it is easy to see why the doctrine of transubstantiation together with Roman Catholic superstition are so well suited to the propagation of bread worship at the hands of those spirits. In their biblical ignorance, Roman Catholics think that demons are afraid of Jesus’ physical presence. The unclean spirits prey upon that ignorance by feigning terror when the priest utters the words of consecration at the Mass, and by working miracles to change the bread into actual flesh and blood. Those carefully choreographed signs and wonders deceive Roman Catholics, making them think that even the demons testify to the “reality” of transubstantiation. In fact, that is precisely what Monsignor Charles Pope concluded in his article, Demons Believe and Tremble before the Real Presence.
It is the delight of those unclean spirits to have such a credulous and superstitious people as Roman Catholics and a doctrine so well suited to idolatry as transubstantiation. There is no legitimate basis for Eucharistic adoration, or for the superstitious belief that devils cannot endure Jesus’ physical presence. The Scripture plainly corrects both errors, as we can see from what it says of unclean spirits and of the worship of images. But if Roman Catholics will fall for it, unclean spirits will delight to work Eucharistic miracles and pretend to flee in “terror” from a bread wafer of which they are not afraid in the least. By John’s placement of his second description of the bread idol in Revelation 16—between the 6th and 7th vial judgments—it appears that those unclean spirits are particularly adept at performing Eucharistic miracles to reinforce the doctrine of transubstantiation that comes from the mouths of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet. Likewise it appears that they will step up such efforts in their final recruiting campaign, using Eucharistic Miracles “to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty” (Revelation 16:14).
To keep us from succumbing to the deception of the unclean spirits, God’s people have His Word to guide them. Just as we may discover in the Scriptures whatever we need to know about the temperament and behavior of unclean spirits, likewise we can discover in His Word what we need to know about handcrafted idols:
“Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 26:1)
John, of course, was ever concerned about idols, and the last words of his first epistle were to that effect:
“Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen” (1 John 5:21).
But one idol in particular was so cleverly devised , so craftily introduced, so subtle in its derivation and so diabolical in its formation that John saw fit to warn us twice of its construction: once in Revelation 13 by referring to the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and again in Revelation 16 by referring to the Plague of the Frogs.
The Image of the Beast, he warned, would be made of bread.
6 Faithful Terms of Communion:
1. An acknowledgment of the Old and New Testament to be the Word of God, and the alone infallible rule of faith and practice.
2. That the whole doctrine of the Westminster Confession of Faith, and the Catechisms, Larger and Shorter, are agreeable unto, and founded upon the Scriptures.
3. That Presbyterial Church Government and manner of worship are alone of divine right and unalterable; and that the most perfect model of these as yet attained, is exhibited in the Form of Government and Directory for Worship, adopted by the Church of Scotland in the Second Reformation.
4. That public, social covenanting is an ordinance of God, obligatory on churches and nations under the New Testament; that the National Covenant and the Solemn League are an exemplification of this divine institution; and that these Deeds are of continued obligation upon the moral person; and in consistency with this, that the Renovation of these Covenants at Auchensaugh, Scotland, 1712 was agreeable to the word of God.
5. An approbation of the faithful contending of the martyrs of Jesus, especially in Scotland, against Paganism, Popery, Prelacy, Malignancy and Sectarianism; immoral civil governments; Erastian tolerations and persecutions which flow from them; and of the Judicial Testimony emitted by the Reformed Presbytery in North Britain, 1761 with supplements from the Reformed Presbyterian Church; as containing a noble example to be followed, in contending for all divine truth, and in testifying against all corruptions embodied in the constitutions of either churches or states.
6. Practically adorning the doctrine of God our Saviour by walking in all His commandments and ordinances blamelessly.
Walt,
Explain this,
“That Presbyterial Church Government and manner of worship are alone of divine right …”.
What is your manner of worship? A Bible study with a few hymns? Show me that in the Bible.
Presbterial government? Not a monarchial form? Prove it from the Bible.
Jim wrote:
Walt,
Explain this,
“That Presbyterial Church Government and manner of worship are alone of divine right …”.
What is your manner of worship? A Bible study with a few hymns? Show me that in the Bible.
Presbterial government? Not a monarchial form? Prove it from the Bible.
—-
It has been proven in the Grand Debate without question using hundreds of proof texts, and proven in history with the Church of Scotland post the Apostolic church.
I disagree with Tim that the Early Church was based upon prelacy and episcopacy, as I think it is an early model of Presbyterianism with regional and local churches that were administered by Bishops or ruling Elders. Certainly some individual names surfaced, but this is the same way Calvin, Beza, Knox and countless other names surfaced in the rise of Presbyterianism in the first and second reformation. Just because one called themselves a Bishop rather than a Teaching or Ruling Elder is relatively insignificant as the immaturity and youth of the Early Church was finding its core biblical definitions (some early without the Canon, and others later with the Canon).
In terms of the Papacy, well that is Anti-christ no matter how you define it. If you really believe the Papacy is Biblical, that will be humorous watching you prove that one. It has not even one shred of evidence in all of Scripture. That is why the Grand Debate only focused on independency vs. presbyterianism. The idea that Papacy and Prelacy/Episcopacy was a biblical form did not even make the grade…as both are so far from biblical it is not even worth spending any time discussing the subject.
Papal form of government is upheld by 1 billion people who love the money, the glitz, glamour, robes, incense, Mary, global real estate holdings, the Vatican Bank, the Vatican Library, the history of evil, wickedness, murder, blood, etc. It is all like a hollywood movie on steroids. Nothing Biblical about Roman Catholicism. Come out of her Jim ASAP.
Catholics beware!
Be sure and read Tim’s citations of other’s writings–especially from scripture. His conclusions are pure speculation on his part, and do no justice to the meaning of the original texts in their context. Be sure to read them in context. His quote mining is pretty slick.
Tim says–
“First, we recall that by instructing people to worship the Image, the False Prophet causes people “to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads” (Revelation 13:16). The significance to our discussion is that the unleavened bread used at Passover is one of three things in the Old Testament that yields such a mark:
“Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; … And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD’S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.” (Exodus 13:7,9) [Note: Read all of Exodus 13:1-18 to get the context of the “why” God commanded this. And then read verse 19 which says “So it shall serve as a sign on your hand and as phylacteries on your forehead, for with a powerful hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt.”]
Of the three things in the Old Testament that yield a mark on the forehead and hand, only unleavened bread can be fashioned into an idol. The other two involve intangible devotional practices that cannot be fashioned into a hand-made idol: dedicating the first born to God (Exodus 13:12-16) and loving the Lord and memorizing His Word (Deuteronomy 6:5-8). Neither of these can be fashioned into an idol that men can make with their hands to worship, but bread certainly can be. John’s warning about the Image of the Beast in Revelation 13 is really a warning about bread.
John mentions nothing about bread or the Eucharist in any of this. This is only Tim’s conclusion based on conjecture and scriptural acrobatics.
Please, everybody! Read these citations for what they really say, not for what Tim tries to make them say. He’s playing the “Six degrees of Kevin Bacon” game with Holy Scripture. Don’t let him get away with it.
Bob,
You are quite right when you say “Be sure and read Tim’s citations of other’s writings–especially from scripture.”
I may very well be both deceived and deceiver and my readers are encouraged to do exactly as you have said.
They are also encouraged to do exactly the same thing with the writings of the church fathers, the writings of the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church, the writings of Roman Catholic apologists, whatever statements issue from the “infallible” Pope in Rome, and the caveats of “Methodist” commentators.
Thanks,
Tim
TIM–
You said: “Those who have been reading this blog for any length of time are at least peripherally aware of the eschatology espoused here. We believe that the prophesied Antichrist of which we are warned by the apostles and prophets was manifested in the rise of Roman Catholicism and is personified in the Papacy of Rome.”
That is a false claim. I’ll demonstrate:
You said: “But we do not hold to that tradition, and the reason for this is quite simple: there are fourteen, not eleven, horns in Daniel’s vision.
At this point we invite our readers to return to Daniel chapter 7, and read it closely, noticing three things:
1) Each of the first four empires is described in its final, not its initial, configuration;
2) Daniel never says that “the first horns” were ten in number; and
3) Daniel never says that “three of the ten” horns were removed.”
If this is the case, by your own calculation, the final configuration is eleven and not ten. As you say:
“The final configuration of the Roman empire, therefore, may be seen in its list of Dioceses at the end of the fourth century.
1) Rome–the see of one (Italy, Egypt, the East)
2) Asia
3) Pontica
4) Thrace
5) Macedonia
6) Dacia
7) Pannonia
8) Africa
9) Gaul
10) Spain
11) Britain
Your scenario doesn’t fit. You said ” Thus, there must remain ten horns, even after the rise of Antichrist. Ten. Always ten (Daniel 7:8, Revelation 12:3, Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3, 7, 12, 16).”
AND
“In other words, what may be called the most universally accepted tradition regarding Daniel 7 assumes something that Daniel never actually says.”
And neither does yours. Daniel doesn’t say anything about the “5th Empire”, nor does he say anything about the “14th diocese.”
Looks like the unclean frog spirits have gotten into your breakfast cereal.
Thanks, Bob,
What you are describing as the presence of 11 horns is after three have been removed to make room for the 14th to come up. The presence of Antichrist is the Eleventh Horn only after three have been removed to make room for him. The presence of the Antichrist is the beginning of the 5th empire, whereas the removal of three to make room for him is the end of the 4th. That is why the Beast of Revelation 13—which is in fact the Little Horn of Daniel 7—is portrayed with Ten Horns, even though, strictly speaking, the Beast himself is the “11th”. The subduction of the three horns took place while the Emperor was still Pontifex, more than two years before the title Pontifex was transferred to the Pope, and more than four years before the Emperor abandoned the title. Thus, the final configuration of the Roman Empire was with ten left standing after the Little Horn had uprooted three. Then he started growing and became larger than the other ten.
Thanks,
Tim
TIM–
You said: “What you are describing as the presence of 11 horns is after three have been removed to make room for the 14th to come up.”
I don’t think so, Tim. That is your description, not mine. Eleven is still not ten, no matter how you try to explain it away.
You said: “Each of the first four empires is described in its final, not its initial, configuration”–which is ten, not eleven.
You said ”Thus, there must remain ten horns, even after the rise of Antichrist. Ten. Always ten.”–which excludes eleven even being possible.
You said ““The final configuration of the Roman empire, therefore, may be seen in its list of Dioceses at the end of the fourth century.” And then you gave this list:
1) Rome–the see of one (Italy, Egypt, the East)
2) Asia
3) Pontica
4) Thrace
5) Macedonia
6) Dacia
7) Pannonia
8) Africa
9) Gaul
10) Spain
11) Britain
Let me repeat what you said “The final configuration of the Roman empire“– is ELEVEN! That excludes ten as a final possibility. Or are you trying to say that Italy does not count as a diocese? It did before, why doesn’t it now? You listed Rome as a see of one. That counts as a diocese by anyone’s standards. You were the one who said ”Thus, there must remain ten horns, even after the rise of Antichrist. Ten. Always ten.”
You have been caught red handed. Why don’t you just admit you miscounted?
Bob, I think you’re missing the point. If the traditional reading of Daniel 7 is correct, there should only have been 7 not 10 horns remaining after three of the first horns were removed. But there are always ten. That’s what I meant by “remain”. What remains is what is left of the original allotment after three are subtracted. Three are removed, and ten remain. Thus there must have been thirteen to start with. Even after Antichrist has removed three horns, there remain ten of the original horns.
The point is that of an Antichrist coming up among ten not coming up among seven (Daniel 7:8), the Beast of Revelation 12 having 10 horns rather than seven (Revelation 12:3), the Beast of Revelation 13 having ten horns rather than seven (Revelation 13:1), the Beast of Revelation 17 having ten horns rather than seven (Revelation 17:3,7), and the Antichrist at the end still having ten horns rather than seven to rally to his cause (Revelation 17:12,16). Thus, even after the rise of Antichrist there are ten rather than seven.
But if it pleases you to maintain that I struggle with math, you are free to continue maintaining that opinion here.
In any case, if you know of a Scripture reference which shows only seven horns remaining after the rise of antichrist, rather than ten, you are free to provide that, as well.
Thanks,
Tim
TIM–
You said: “Bob, I think you’re missing the point. If the traditional reading of Daniel 7 is correct, there should only have been 7 not 10 horns remaining after three of the first horns were removed. But there are always ten. That’s what I meant by “remain”.
Tim, I think you are missing the point. I never said anything about seven horns. You were the one who listed eleven remaining diocese, not ten. I know that is what you meant by “remain”. I also know what you meant by “there are always ten”.
But you listed ELEVEN diocese as the remaining diocese, not ten. You also labelled those ELEVEN dioceses as the final configuration of the Roman Empire (the Forth Beast) –eleven horns and not ten horns as Daniel said. You also said that was the final configuration even after the rise of the Anti-Christ.
You flat out missed your calculation which makes your statements false– plain and simple. It’s not that any one is missing the point. It’s your mistake. Why don’t you just admit that you are wrong?
Bob,
When have I ever said “the final configuration of the Roman Empire is ten horns even after the rise of antichrist”? Perhaps it will help our conversation along if you could point out where I said that.
Since the rise of antichrist is the start of the Fifth Empire after Rome, the presence of Antichrist is not considered the “final configuration” of the previous empire. It’s the beginning of the next one. As Daniel states,
I have said that ten horns remain after the rise of antichrist, and I have said the final configuration of the Roman Empire is ten horns. But I have never said the final configuration of the Roman Empire includes antichrist horn, which is what you are trying to find in my words.
The final configuration of the Roman Empire was ten horns, and then Daniel saw another one coming up, before whom three of the first horns had been plucked up by the roots. If antichrist plucked up three by the roots before coming up, then he comes up among ten. Thus, before he comes up there are ten, which is the final configuration of the Roman Empire. Then he comes up in the place of the uprooted three, signaling the beginning of the Fifth Empire. In the figure to which you refer where I say that the final configuration of the Roman Empire may be seen in its list of dioceses. That is true. It can be seen. Just look at those ten that were not uprooted. You may note in that figure that I do not even list eleven dioceses. I listed thirteen. Three of them are noted as the “uprooted” ones, that make room for the little one that comes up.
Anyway, can you point to where I said the final configuration of the Roman Empire is ten horns, including antichrist? That will help me understand your concern.
Thanks,
Tim
TIM–
You said: “Anyway, can you point to where I said the final configuration of the Roman Empire is ten horns, including antichrist? That will help me understand your concern.”
Right here is your quote from “The Fourteenth Diocese”:
“The final configuration of the Roman empire, therefore, may be seen in its list of Dioceses at the end of the fourth century.We show the Petrine Dioceses in red and the usurped Metropolitans in blue, and the three combined sees as one, in accordance with the claims of Popes Damasus I and Gregory the Great:”
And then you give this list which includes the “see of one” which you claim is the little horn:
1) Rome–the see of one (Italy, Egypt, the East)
2) Asia
3) Pontica
4) Thrace
5) Macedonia
6) Dacia
7) Pannonia
8) Africa
9) Gaul
10) Spain
11) Britain
So the “final configuration of the Roman empire, therefore, (that) may be seen in its list of Dioceses at the end of the fourth century” includes the diocese of the little horn (Rome) and ten other diocese. One plus ten equals eleven for the final configuration.
You say ten, always ten. Since when did eleven equal ten? Which diocese in that list of yours are you not counting as a diocese?
This is another big gaping hole in your theory. Sorry, Charlie. The Roman Catholic Church does not fit any beast or horn or Anti-Christ in any prophecy– whether Daniel, Paul, or John. And any attempts you make to say otherwise are purely subjective on your part. Have any Pope’s of the Roman Church done evil things? Yes. But that doesn’t make them the Anti-Christ. Have you ever done evil things in your lifetime? That doesn’t make you the Anti-Christ either.
Tim, you have written about a 5th Empire. The book of Daniel never mentions it, neither does the book of Revelation. You have written about a Fourteenth Diocese. Daniel never mentions it and neither does Revelation. You are trying to make the Bible say things that it simply does not say. If it had, your theories would have been common knowledge to all who read the Bible without controversy.
Is it really that hard for you to admit your error?
Bob, thanks for your comments.
Tim
Tim, you wrote:
“According to Revelation, at some point in John’s near future (Revelation 1:1) the events Daniel had foretold would soon begin. According to Paul, the mystery of iniquity had already been at work in the apostolic era (2 Thessalonians 2:7) but was being restrained for a time. ”
Again, please share why you believe that these events must have started before 70AD in dating Revelation so that the “near future” would be fulfilled.
Also, do you believe that the gospel of John was written before or after 70AD and if before, I assume you believe that they both book of John and Revelations were written closely before 70AD?
Walt,
Regarding the early dating of Revelation, I’ll just say here that John in Revelation was clearly writing in anticipation the “Feet” period of the statue of Daniel 2. As I have discussed in the Fifth Empire, Part 4, Daniel makes the observation that the Iron and Clay period begins when “they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men” (Daniel 2:43). If you study the history of all the kingdoms from Nebuchadnezzar through Rome there is only one singular exception to the royal lines of kings—Alexander—and Daniel makes a point to highlight that fact (Daniel 11:4). Everyone—both before and after Alexander—left the kingdom to his progeny. Alexander is the sole exception to that rule in more than 600 years of empires, and his immediate successors were his generals, and they left their kingdoms to their sons. When we examine the Scriptures, we can see that “mingle themselves with the seed of men” is something no kingdom did, until Otho. Before Otho—as with Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece (Alexander excepted) and the first seven emperors of Rome, they were in some way related to the previous emperor: Julius Cæsar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero and Galba. Those seven emperors reflect the “Iron Legs” period of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue. After that, the familial succession ended, which meant that from Otho on was the Iron and Clay period.
John was writing during the “Iron Legs” period, and it was almost up. Thus, the angel says to him, “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space” (Revelation 17:10). The significance of the Seven Kings is that they represent the Iron Period of the Roman Empire, the fourth Empire in the succession of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, but just prior to that important transition from “Iron Legs” to “Iron and Clay Feet” (Daniel 2:33).
More on this in a future post, but it’s a good question. I haven’t really considered the dating of the Gospel of John in relation to this and so I will defer that answer to later.
Thanks,
Tim
Tim wrote:
“But John had seen even more. The rise of that Wicked One was to be attended by the rise of a False Prophet, the Second Beast of Revelation 13 (Revelation 13:11-17) which we have identified as the Apparition of Mary. Together with the First Beast, the Second Beast was to tell people to erect an image to be worshiped (Revelation 13:14). We understand that Image to be the Roman Catholic Eucharistic bread which is adored throughout the world by Roman Catholics with what is called “latria,” the worship that is due to God alone. As Rome’s own defenders and apologists celebrate, it is one of the chief objectives of the Apparitions of Mary to increase the adoration of “her son” in the Eucharist. The apparitions had maintained a low but steady profile throughout the life of Roman Catholicism, but as we noted in When “Mary” Got Busy, Eucharistic Adoration exploded in Europe at about the same time the apparition phenomenon did at the end of the 11th century. The False Prophet of Revelation 13 was fast at work, complete with its signs and wonders, especially the miracle of bringing the Eucharistic image to life.”
Jim, Bob and CK this must be exciting for you three to have a great summary of what makes you guys so excited to be Roman Catholics. Cool stuff, yea?
Is Bob a Catholic?
Walt,
Almost as cool as you look twirling, swishing, preening and posing in front of a mirror with your new kilt.
Tim
“But neither the priest nor the faith of the communicant can possibly make the bread cease to be bread and become the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ, and thus the object of Roman Catholic adoration—”
He who changed the substance of water into the the substance of wine ( Transubstantiation? ) and multiplied loaves and fishes most certainly can do so through the ministry of priests just as he used waiters at the feast of Cana.
By the way, Lutherans, not Catholics believe in the error of “receptionism”.
Tim,
Are you aware that the same John who wrote Revelation also wrote the 6th chapter of his Gospel?
You and Walt murmur against Christ just as the OT people murmured against Moses.
The Manna is fulfilled in the true Bread from Heaven.
By the way, although I assist at weekly Holy Hour, have never heard a Host talk. Nor do I have the stigmata. What percentage of Catholics have been blessed with such miracles over the centuries? ( Almost zero )
Tim,
Wouldn’t apparitions of Mary, a female, be those of a prophetess rather than a prophet?
Are you sure Paul wasn’t a stigmatist? He said he was.
Other than Paul, we can count all the stigmatists on the fingers of one hand. You as much as say painful sores we a sore of plague infecting Catholics. Could you explain?
And remember Professor Tim, Diocletian and diocese are not related.
Tim,
My wife and I bicycled over to Holy Rosary church in Portland for Eucharistic Adoration this evening. The Host didn’t talk to me. I am sure my wife experienced no voices either. Were we supposed to have heard voices?
Stim,
“The god of the Roman Catholic religion is a wafer of unleavened bread, and Eucharistic adoration is nothing other than the worship of the created thing, a thing which human hands have made. The significanc…To worship bread is to violate the Lord’s commandments (Exodus 20:3-4; Deuteronomy 5:7-8), and bread-worship is one of the defining attributes of Antichrist. It is of this bread worship that we were warn…”
I just posted on Called to Communion Augustine’s statement that we adore the Eucharist before consuming. He even says we sin by not adoring.
Lurkers, who are you gonna go with? Augustine or Tim?
( What’s that? Tim who? Tim Kauffman. With two Fs. You know, the owner of this blog. Yes, THAT Tim.
Sheeeesh! How many Tim Kauffmans can we be talking about, for crying out loud! )
Boy this is very confusing I’m just an ordinary guy been I ministry 50 years preached 45 countries and love Tim’s thoughts on many subjects, I’ve been with Catholics in most countries including Poland and then later with John Paul II in his home in Rome where he showed me places most people never see, all very impressive but at the end of it all, they are all very good people but also very wrong, my simple Protestant evangelical faith without all these trappings to me is much more Biblical than all this made up stuff and they are as far as I am concerned just wrong – thank you Tim
Tim, thx so much for making the Scriptures clear from Exodus, Daniel and Revelation. The explanation of the link between the frogs and bread makes a lot of sense, as does the rise of the little horn and the fifth empire.
i can not believe that this all was prophecied SO DETAILED.
This is amazing. Almost INCREDIBLE.
Tim, did you find it out alone? Have you red this already once?
Wow, wow, wow…. im so overwhelmed! This is real prophecy..
i have almost no words im so shocked :’)
on one side it is very sad. That this is true.. but on the other side, to know this fact, its amazing to know it, it gives a lot of strengh and security when we understand what the apostles ment.
Tim MUST write a commentary to revelation.. haha. Would be AMAZING
tim i must say : i love you (brotherly love)
but i must say it: i love you.
Thanks God he drove me here.